Should I have my flat-back 110 receiver face trued while I'm overhauling it? I have a new NSS recoil lug and barrel nut. McMillan stock is ordered and a 5R rock barrel will be ordered next week.
I guess I can always do it later. This is for a hunting rifle and a casual range gun. How hard is it to do? One of my friends is a fantastic machinist.
Tony.
JMHO...With what you are using your rifle for, truing the action face on a lathe would not yield any noticeable improvement. All I have ever done in that department is run the face around on a nice flat new sharpening stone, to make sure there are no burs or high spots. That way I can apply my "OCD" in other areas I deem more deserving ;-)).
I have never had any of my Savage actions trued. My Pac-Nor and Hart barrels often shoot in the teens with said actions so I didn't see much point in it.
I like FW Conch's idea of deburring the face and will probably try that. I might use 800 grit wet-dry on a sheet of glass.
Being able to shoot tiny groups is not really the intent of truing on a Savage. Having predictable elevation and wind calls is the purpose. But truing the action is only part of that package. Anything that can influence the axis of the barrel bore is critical. Action threads and face, barrel threads, barrel nut threads and face, all must be concentric and perpendicular. A straight barrel bore and scope mount screw hole alignment. These mating surfaces and threads all need to be close in order to be able to make variable range first shot hits.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I find that once I have the scope zeroed, and a load that groups well, my elevation and windage adjustments are very predictable, very repeatable and very precise with a good scope, a bubble level and a solid mounting setup, I can get first shot hits at various distances out to 1500 yards. I don't see how a trued action would change that in any way. Please explain further.
An interesting 12 page long thread on this topic:
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/thr...proof.3744125/
Last edited by geezerhood; 05-11-2016 at 05:51 PM.
I did not mean to imply that no savage could do that, however the laws of physics remain unchanged.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Robinhood - I wasn't saying I doubt what you said - What I meant is I don't understand how truing the action actually makes scope adjustments / first hit probability or whatever aspect of the game, more predictable / repeatable / precise for variable range first shot hits given the same repeatable accuracy of a given barrel / load. I figured that once you have the scope dialed in, nothing moving out of place on the barreled action, stock, scope or scope mounts, and you have the reticle plumbed to your bubble level, as long as you keep that sucker level, you were good to go whether the front of the action was trued or not.
Thanks for the replies! I'll skip the receiver face truing.
Tony.
This is an assumption based on the belief that the scope and the barrel are in a parallel axis. If you have a barrel action junction that skews the barrel, then your assumption is incorrect.Originally Posted by geezerhood
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Is there anyone who had his Savage action trued and is it shooting better now ?
And how much better ?
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There is a lot going on here.
When you thread your barrel into the receiver on a barrel with a shoulder the shoulder and face of the receiver make contact. Those mating surfaces need to have consistent bearing everywhere. Facing the receiver is only part of the.equation.
On a savage the barrel has no shoulder. The lock nut performs that function. You have the face of the nut, the face of the receiver, the receiver threads, the barrel threads and the.lock nut threads all trying to achieve this consistent bearing while keeping the.barrel bore in alignment with the action.
Now throw in the screws for the.scope mount which have.to be in the same plane as the barrel bore and you see how complicated this is.
Remarkable they do as well as they do. Todays CNC machines make it much easier.
@12lrs So is there any profit / gain in performance when trueing the action vs a standard Savage action ?
In my case I am thinking about the action of my Savage 12 LRP
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Have been following this thread with great interests. Kudos to the folks taking the time to answer the question. I wondered this myself as I have 2 10T savage rifles. One, the 308 shoots so good i wouldn't want anything done to it, the other is the 6.5 creedmoor thats on its way back to savage. Serious accuracy issues. Here is my question to add to this thread. Is it worth it to have a rifle trued for the average shooter who's rifle is already shooting great? Or is this more toward a distance shooter trying to ring out every mm of accuracy? With the RPR coming out with there trued action, and now savage coming out with the stealth rifle trued and the ashberry coming in the fall, am just wondering if its worth spending more money on these rifles starting costs over a grand. Have only shot my 308 at 100 yards so far so it may be a tac driver there but when I get to try my luck next month at targets up to 1000 yards, may find out it sucks. Allot of variables come into play when shooting long distance. Is it the rifle, the weather or the person that could be the problem. I suppose truing a rifle could remove one of those variables.
Savage 10 FCP-SR 308, 300BO PCS
I really would like to know if truing would make my Savage better !
The rifle shot 0.5 MOA when it was brand new
Actually I will check that again since I am mounting a new scope in the next weeks
I would really love to hear comments from someone who did it already and what his findings are
But not a comment like . . . 'it feels like' or 'I think' . . .
Has to be based on performance
What where the groups the rifle shot before and after truing the action ?
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Last edited by Kingair001; 05-12-2016 at 10:10 AM.
If your rifle is shooting well I would leave it alone.
Remember truing an action entails a lot more than just truing the face of the receiver.
If you find that with a 100 yard zero at longer ranges say 600 yards your groups move left or right you could benefit from trueing. It also could be that the scope base screws are misaligned.
The savage action is unique in that the bolt floats and corrects itself for minor misalignment.
@m12lrs
I was just thinking to do the truing when changing the barrel
Actually I am thinking to start using it in Tactical Matches
It just needs a muzzle brake and modify my stock with an adjustable cheek rest
Other modification would be a BDM or use my Dark Eagle magazines
I just need to adjust my trigger back to 1.5 or 2.0 lbs so that the Accutrigger doesn't block when running the bolt fast and hard
The only big question mark I have is : how long will the Savage action last and how good will it survive this hard usage ?
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What does the floating bolt head actually do to improve accuracy?The savage action is unique in that the bolt floats and corrects itself for minor misalignment.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
You could also just make a sight correction and shoot again lol
When a round is chambered it for best accuracy it must be chambered concentric to the bore. If it is off be a fraction of a degree this can cause the bullet to start at a very slight angle and will not travel down the bore as intended. It will actually bounce from side to side down the barrel.
The floating bolt head allows for a little bit of wiggle room due to differences between actions and the barrel nut system since the threads, action face, recoil lug, and barrel nut are not perfectly tuned in to one another.
I'm not an expert, but I believe this could be a reason for the theory of bullets not going to "sleep" until they get out to 200-300yds.
Nowadays, the top level Gunsmith's in the industry are chambering barrels and matching them to actions on CNC ran programmable lathe's. This allows them to keep the tolerances extremely tight and concentric. This is why the top shooters in the PRS running their highend built customs can shoot almost Benchrest like groups from unorthodox positions. The rifles are built so accurately that they truly show off the skills of the shooters.
Ive been hearing about bullets going to sleep for about 50 years.
I don't think anybody knew what it meant then, and I don't think much has changed.
Wake me up when somebody sets a record. Then wake me up again when they duplicate it.
Good point yobuck, One thing to add to that is that a lot more people are knocking on that door. There was a time when just a few people had the time and or the resources to shoot great. Now it is commonplace. Look at some of the competitive F/TR class scores at mid and long range. They may not be breaking bench rest records but for a fella shooting from his belly there are some great scores. Last month the TSRA FTR 1000 yard championship they were shooting mid 190 matches, mid 960 aggregates with Crazy Wind. This was not just one guy and does not include some of the best in Texas that (guys like Eric Cortina) were shooting team.
In NBRSA Bill Johnston and Richard Jette have been breaking records lately. With several records falling in the last decade.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
As guys keep pushing the envelope, records are getting harder and harder to break. Between the quality of machining that has increased of the last decade and the consistency of materials. Look at all the barrel manufacturer's that are making consistently accurate barrels these days. I've only been in the precision rifle seen since 2013 and a number of new manufacturers have popped up even in the time I've been reading up on the material.
Guys in the ELR game are starting to push that 4,000yds and beyond area. building totally custom equipment to do it with as well. Guys are pushing mid size cartrides out to a mile in competition regularly. On timed stages and connecting. Precision shooting is progressing faster than it ever has.
As far as truing the action I goes I don't feel it would increase the performance of a Savage action by very much. Maybe the bolt will track straighter and you may see better performance in that area. as far as accuracy goes it would be hard for an average shooter to tell. Put your money towards more shooting! Spending time putting rounds down range will be more beneficial to you than anything you can do to your rifle at this point in time.
I would send it to Fred and have him time and true the action. The timing will probably do more for your action than the truing.
You will have to ask someone with more savage experience than I about how long the action would.last. I would expect you will be able to pass it along to the next generation.
I am a recent convert. I bought a couple of the target actions to build switchbarrels with. Love the do it yourself aspect of changing my own barrels.
More people are shooting better because of better equiptment, not because there are better shooters than years back.
And we have better equiptment because of better machinery to build with and not due to better people building it.
The classes setting records are classes that didn't exist until rather recently for the most part.
Mind you I'm glad to see it because it brings new life and excitement to the shooting sports. But lets compare apples to apples.
As for long range and especially extreme long range shooting, new records will appear when some good shooter with a
good gun becomes luckier than the last guy who held the record.
Go to Williamsport or any of the other places that hold matches and observe. On any given day you will see some very good
groups and scores. Usually shot by a small group of the same shooters. But you will also find good shooters shooting
large groups on any given day. Why do the good shooters hope to draw the first relay of the day rather than one in the afternoon?
I mean if their good, should it make any difference? lol
I agree with you on that assessment yobuck, and that's what I see at our local matches as well. It's usually the same group finishing towards the top of every match. This is mostly due to the fact that this group spends more time getting better at shooting though and because they care about getting better at shooting they care about having the gear that will aide them in accomplishing this goal.
So final observation, the best shooters usually have the best gear because they wanted to further improve from where they were at previously.
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