Should I Have Savage Take A Look?

[rkoeneke]

Bought a 10 FLCP-K a year ago, and I have tried everything I can think of to get it to shoot. However, I can not get it to produce a 5 shot group under 1.75 MOA.

Let me immediatley address the first thing that I think is coming into your mind "Maybe the problem is you dude!". I am capable of shooting sub MOA groups. The 11 I just picked up in 223 loves 60gr V-Max and I consistently shoot 1/2 and even 3/8ths inch groups with it.

Now back to the model 10. I have run all sorts of factory ammo through it including the following. Federal GMM 168, Hornday A-Max 168, Sako Super Hammerhead 150, PPU Match 168 HPBT, Freedom Munitions 168 A-Max, Freedom Munitions 178 A-Max, Nosler Blassitic Tip. The best I ever get is a 3 shot group at about 1.25 MOA.

Also the rifle fouls up pretty quickly, and once it gets dirty I start getting lots of fliers. I have to clean it about every 50 rounds to keep the groups together. The gun probably has about 200 or so rounds through it so far.

So what do you guys think? Is it worth sending it back to Savage to have them take a look at it, should I sell it, or should I rebarrel it?

Thanks for your input. Here are a few pics. As you can see, the equipment I have paired with the rifle is top quailty stuff.




Yesterday I took the ammo it likes best and went out and shot 10 5 shot groups, here are the results.

[gbflyer]

Have you tried it on bags only, that is to say without the bipod? It's been my experience that many of the factory synthetic stocks are a little floppy in the forearm area and will not perform as well on a bipod as they do on bags.

To me, what you have there shows promise. It's consistent. Everybody likes to see tiny little groups, and of course everyone else's rifle can put three in the same hole galloping horseback. Personally, I've gotten darned few of those so my expectations aren't nearly as rigid as they once were.

[rkoeneke]

I have not done that with this rifle.

I know eactly where you are coming from my wifes 700 AAC-SD shoots great groups of the bags and bad groups off the bipod, do the the barrel contacting the stock. But this model 10 has the accustock in it, and with the bipod on it completely passes the card stock test over the entire legnth of the barrel. So I do not see barrel contact being an issue here.

Do you still think I need to do another round of testing shooting off of bags only? And even if I do get greats groups off of bags I would still be slightly disappointed. I don't plan of hauling a bunch of bags out in the field with me. Well maybe a weibad pump pillow, but still.

[Fotheringill]

"...Also the rifle fouls up pretty quickly, and once it gets dirty I start getting lots of fliers. I have to clean it about every 50 rounds to keep the groups together...."

Count your blessings.

[rkoeneke]

Count your blessings.

Oh no, why?

[gbflyer]

I think the Accustock IS a bit more rigid but it isn't a McMillan...apples and oranges to be sure. I have one on a 10PH Max 1 in .223 and it's a good factory shooter. I just noticed you're at around 200 rounds. If it's gonna clean up, I'd say it should do it pretty soon.

Yeah, hard to lug bags out in the field for sure.

I don't think a return trip to the factory would yield any more that a long wait with similar results. Probably your best bet is a good Pac Nor prefit. I'm really happy with mine. I had them set me up with a .308 Obermeyer chamber, 10 twist. It's consistently under an inch.

[rkoeneke]

Thanks for the input guys! I appreciate the prespective.

I am not very good at making decisions, still not sure what I should do. If Savage isn't likely to do anything for me, then its seems taking the money I would spend shipping it back to the them and spending it on a new barrel would likey be wise.

[Michadian]

You have checked the barrel for clearance the full length of the stock. Don't forget to check the tang area for clearance as well.

[rkoeneke]

Pardon my ignorance, but is the tang, the area around the barrel nut and recoil lug?

[Michadian]

No, the area under the safety.

[rkoeneke]

Ah, yes. Should there be a very small gap there between the action and the stock, so that the only contact between the rifle and the stock is at the action screws?

[Michadian]

I'm afraid to say that I do not have any guns with an accustock. In general the idea is to eliminate stress (distorting forces) acting upon the receiver. With pillar only bedding the action is supported by pillars at the action screws, while glass bedding cradles the action over a broader area. In either case, contact in the tang area at the rear of the action can create stress when the action screws are tightened. Just be sure that there clearance under the tang. Accustock owners will be able help with action screw tightening sequence and torque values, which may also help tighten up your groups.

[Fotheringill]

OP-

Just clean the barrel after only five shots and you will see what I mean. You will be astounded at the amount of fouling in there.

[short round]

I see vertical string on most of the groups. This can be caused by bipod on concrete bench. Try putting piece of carpet or card board between bench & bipod. Most likely you wont shoot off concrete in field.

[rkoeneke]

Ah that is one thing I haven't done! I will test different torque specs on the action screws. Thank you for that. I have shoot off all sorts of surfaces, but I will pay more attention to that, thank you all!!!

[RustyShackle]

Err Wait,....is there 6 shots in the top center target?

Have you tried shoot-> clean, shoot-> clean, repeat? If you have a rough bore its possible that its fouling quickly, although those groups aren't horrid.

You could always try lapping the bore but everywhere you turn you'll get a different opinion on if its beneficial or harmful. Guess the Jury is still out on that?

Although If you decide to replace that tube and don't mind using it to run an experiment before you swap it out, I would be interested to hear if lapping helped tighten up your groups. either fire lapping or just a hand lapping session.

Also I'm sure scope rings/bases have been triple checked, swapped scopes around maybe. Hope it turns out good for you!

[holescreek]

I have a Model 10 FCP-K that disappointed me the few times I've shot it so I tossed it into the safe and moved on. Lately I've been thinking of pulling it out and giving it a good wringing out once and for all. Have you tried it without the muzzle brake at all?

[rkoeneke]

Err Wait,....is there 6 shots in the top center target?

That is a bad flier from the bottom center group. Note that the group just to the right of bottom center is only four shots. That group also had a flier that didn't even hit the cardboard box.

I have not tried the shot, clean, shoot, clean etc.

I have not shot it without the break. I need and action vise and a propane torch to get it off. That thing is on there good. I tried to get it off with it in my Tipton gun vise, a wrench, and a heat gun, but it wont budge.

[Maztech89]

I've seen too many bipods skidding and jumping on the bench causing vertical to rule that out. Your groups look like there's a tracking issue chucking them up. I would try a good rest setup where the gun can track smoothly.

[Process_engineer]

I shoot my 10T of my backpack and am able to get sub-MOA groups. I had issues with the copper fouling for at least the first 200 rounds. I had grouping issues for the first 100 rounds. Id give it another 100 rounds to make a judgement. Or try lapping the barrel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bigguy]

I can tell you how to get the barrel to quit fouling and shoot better but you will find some disagreement with the technique, particularly from those that have not used it. I have used it recently on a 300 Weatherby that would badly foul in just 10 shots and not group under 3 inches at 100 yds. Now with the technique and some other work the gun will group under 1 MOA at 100, the best was .58 MOA just the other day. The technique is very simple go to David Tubbs web site, just google David Tubbs, and either buy the Final Finsh kit, currently $28 if you reload, or the final finish ammo. Quite frankly I was totally amazed at how well it worked and I would not hesitate to use it again. I used the kit, followed his instructions, and believe in it now.

[Process_engineer]

I can tell you how to get the barrel to quit fouling and shoot better but you will find some disagreement with the technique, particularly from those that have not used it. I have used it recently on a 300 Weatherby that would badly foul in just 10 shots and not group under 3 inches at 100 yds. Now with the technique and some other work the gun will group under 1 MOA at 100, the best was .58 MOA just the other day. The technique is very simple go to David Tubbs web site, just google David Tubbs, and either buy the Final Finsh kit, currently $28 if you reload, or the final finish ammo. Quite frankly I was totally amazed at how well it worked and I would not hesitate to use it again. I used the kit, followed his instructions, and believe in it now.

That's where I was going with the lapping comment. I personally have not used it but it was suggested to me.

[rkoeneke]

The technique is very simple go to David Tubbs web site, just google David Tubbs, and either buy the Final Finsh kit, currently $28 if you reload, or the final finish ammo.

I had heard of David Tubb and see some of his videos, but I hadn't heard of this. Very interesting concept. Thanks for the tip!

[jim_k]

The action screws themselves should only pull the action down. The backs and sides of the screws must not touch anything. The front two screws on a Savage 10 are the functional action screws. The rear screw just holds the back of the trigger guard; do not tighten the rear one real tight. The tang should not contact the stock, so Dremel away any stock touching the tang. A dollar bill should go under the tang just like checking a barrel for floating. I would diamond-lap the barrel. I would also glass bed the action. I haven't done an Accustock bedding, but I have gotten fabulous results at times, even bedding aluminum stocks like the Bell & Carlson Medalist and Tactical Medalist. Lapping the barrel most likely will do the most for accuracy. Handloads with match bullets or Federal Gold Medal Match are my standards for accuracy checks. If those things don't work, either send it to them, or get a pre-fit. At the 600 yard F-class match last weekend, a shooter on my position shot a 13X 20 shot string with his Savage Criterion prefit. X-ring at 600 yards is 3" in diameter! I have personally shot a 10-X string of 20 shots at 600 yards with a Savage 10 in .308 Win, factory barrel, so they should shoot fine. If you have a good Savage factory barrel, there is no reason to get a pre-fit. Pac-Nor, Shilen, Criterion are all excellent pre-fits (didn't know PacNor made them), and I think they diamond-lap all of their barrels, especially the stainless steel. I think I heard that Shilen now laps their chrome moly prefits. It should be on their website. I have also used the Tubb Final Finish and the full fire-lapping kit (50 rounds of loaded ammo or 50 bullets, fired in sequence, according to his recommended pattern) and it works great. Get the full boat fire-lapping kit of 50 rounds. That would be the quickest, safest, sanest, bestest way for you to proceed. I checked again, and now he sells 20 rounds of loaded Final Finish, which is just about equivalent to the 50 round treatment, so give Superior Shooting Systems a call, and get it sent pronto. $32. (806) 323-9488 CST

[rkoeneke]

I verified last night, both the tang and the barrelnut were already free floated nicely. I am leaning towards experimentation with the final finish, I really want a pac nor prefit, but I am having trouble justifying the cost. Thank you guys for all your help so far. Everything is greatly appreciated!