Savage target action

**rjtfroggy** · 04-05-2016, 12:50 PM

I was reading a forum question and answers (different site) from a search on the PTA and it went over four pages about how they can never be competitive against custom actions.
Now in this forum although they never mentioned Sharp Shooter by name they did say that even with his time & true and evolution trigger with machined lug and nut they just can not compete in short range BR, and after all the fixes you might as well just buy custom at a pretty close cost.
Personally I shoot a PTA and do pretty good but how about the rest of you?
Fred would love to hear a view from gun smith side of you, and from any other short range BR shooters or gun smiths.

LongRange · 04-05-2016, 05:40 PM

froggy feel free to post this on that forum....

this rifle...

will shoot these groups any day of the week if the shooter is on his game...this was when i had to switch lots of bullets...4 bullets from each lot in the same hole and fred has never touched this action...

also i shoot prone off a bipod not a bench.

**yobuck** · 04-05-2016, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by LongRange

froggy feel free to post this on that forum....

this rifle...

will shoot these groups any day of the week if the shooter is on his game...this was when i had to switch lots of bullets...4 bullets from each lot in the same hole and fred has never touched this action...

also i shoot prone off a bipod not a bench.

Yeah but you missed the bools eye all 8 times.
Are we finished with the load work up yet? lol

LongRange · 04-05-2016, 07:32 PM

It never ends...at least for me lol!

**rjtfroggy** · 04-06-2016, 10:12 AM

LongRange I also have targets that look like that, best group(5 shot) so far is 0.163 with a bunch in the 0.165- 0.167 range and my best score to date is 247 @ 100 in a score match.(came in second in my class) So personally I think they can run with the customs but the general consensus was they don't compare or even come close to the Bats, Pandas, or any other big name out there.
The general thinking being that they aren't smooth enough and operating the action upsets the rifle in the bags too much. I find that in a 10 minute string I have plenty of time to reset my position and always have time left on the clock.In score match the X is a 1/16th inch dot inside a 1/2 inch ring @ 100 and 1/8th inside 1" ring @200.
I would love to buy a custom and HAVE IT BUILT but where is the satisfaction of a DIY build that can compete when just the action cost almost as much as a whole build using the PTA.
I have been to a match where one guys stock cost as much as my whole build ($3100 mine)
What I was using was a 243 win. Criterion match barrel with Berger 105 target bullets, now if some nice weather would show up here I can go tune the new 6BR Norma X Caliber barrel and get ready for this year. This one should shoot 1:7 twist 24" full cylinder contour, heavy as all **** but should hold nice in the rest and bags.

LongRange · 04-06-2016, 10:48 AM

i agree the savage action will shoot with the best but i also agree that they upset the rifle when cycled but like you ive never had an issue with that but i also dont shoot BR comp like you...i can tell you i just got my surgeon 591 build done and the 591 is much smoother when cycling the bolt but it still has resistance...ive cycled a few of the high end actions and they are in a class all their own without a doubt.

**rjtfroggy** · 04-06-2016, 04:41 PM

That was basically the whole discussion on that thread, the smoothness and ease of working the bolt.
One of the reasons I was hoping Fred would chime in.
Myself I am thinking about another PTA or sending a single shot varmint action out for some of Fred's pixie dust and trigger and then thread a new Douglas 308win match barrel on it, then use that for 200 yard and the 6br for 100. Going this way would still be $1400-$2000 less cost wise. Big question is would it come close in comparison.

LongRange · 04-06-2016, 05:11 PM

it depends on what type of action your comparing the PTA to...if comparing to an actual BR action then i REALLY doubt the PTA will even be close as far as opening and closing especially opening on a fired round even with Fred working on it...i know you have seen those high end action operate and there is no resistance to them at all.

**rjtfroggy** · 04-07-2016, 06:49 AM

I guess it boils down too you can't buy a "smart car and expect the ride of a Rolls Royce." All you can do is hope to improve it.
Long Range over on www.accuratshooter.com there is a different thread running right now and there are actually people giving praise to the Savage actions, how unusual is that?
By the way if I was a fan of the chasis system guns I would copy yours, nice gun.

LongRange · 04-07-2016, 08:36 AM

thats VERY unusual...especially on AS LOL...and the analogy is perfect...as i said savage actions are or can be made very accurate and IMHO can run with the best until opening and closing the bolt without disrupting the rifle becomes a factor.

and thanks.

**rjtfroggy** · 04-07-2016, 05:24 PM

Put myself on the T & T list along with the target trigger with Fred today end of May early June we'll see.
As of this morning with a 1.6lb. trigger this gun shot mid .3's 110 gr. 308 Varmenters.

**sharpshooter** · 04-07-2016, 11:44 PM

The guys that say that it can't been done with a Savage action are the same guys who couldn't do it with a custom action. One of these days they will realize it's not the sword, it's the swordsmanship. The last registered short range match I shot in turned a few heads after I shot a 100 yd heavy gun small group of .169" in hurricane conditions. Maybe some of you will remember this:
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...l-Finale-Match!

**yobuck** · 04-08-2016, 11:07 AM

From the standpoint of accuracy alone, how much is required from the action? Assuming its been tuned up of coarse.
How smooth does it have to be? I know that until fairly recently, the heavy gun 1000 yd group record was held by the same guy for about 14 years with a gun built on a Rem 721 action.
Is there any reason not to believe it just as easily could have been a Savage?
The scope on the 721 by the way was a plain old 24x Leupold. Just saying.

**rjtfroggy** · 04-08-2016, 01:02 PM

Yobuck some of these custom actions are like sliding a hot knife through melted butter, of course these are the real top end cnc'ed and then possibly stoned to perfection, but they are also in $3000 range and then some. I was at a match where one guys rifle & scope was probably in the $7000 plus range, his front rest was $1400, top of the line everything and he still didn't win but the rifle was beautiful to say the least.

**LoneWolf** · 04-08-2016, 01:26 PM

For Benchrest and F-Class I don't think it has much to do with action, unless your one of the guys trying to shoot all your shots in under 10 secs to try and beat a wind change. The Savage action may not fit ones style of shooting in that case, but I believe the Savage actions are very capable in these facets!

I know I've spoken towards my issues with Savages design concerning feeding, cycling, and ejection/extraction issues, but I only relate those issues to the type of shooting I primarily compete in. And I'll repeat again accuracy has never been an issue! However, confidence in ones gear is a primary driver on what a shooter is capable of and if you aren't confident in it, you won't run it to it's full potential because you'll always fall back on the fact that there was something wrong with your gear.

This is the psychological side of competition. Build your rig with parts you'll have full trust and confidence in. Obviously, Fred had confidence in the rifles he took to the competition he linked to in his post as he did very well. I've shot a lot of matches and I've had days where I make 80-100% of the shots in the match and days where I've only hit 50-70% most of the time for tactical matches 80% or better of the total points available is good enough for a win.

Run the Savage Action. If it's built buy Fred for BR competition it will do exactly what you need it too. After that it's all up to you!

**rjtfroggy** · 04-08-2016, 05:29 PM

Since I've decided to have my single shot reworked I think I may try to modify a stock to try and make a BR stock. Nothing fancy just something that will hold the bags better than the Maiko that it is in.
I have a 4.25 blind mag that has already been cut back a little so nothing to lose except some time and brain cells trying to figure it all out, and at my age I don't have many cells to waste.
There was a thread here a few years ago with a step by step picture lay out start to finish so I need to try and find it, may be gone it was way before the change overs, and I am not that good when it comes to the search function.

**m12lrs** · 04-08-2016, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by rjtfroggy

Since I've decided to have my single shot reworked I think I may try to modify a stock to try and make a BR stock. Nothing fancy just something that will hold the bags better than the Maiko that it is in.
I have a 4.25 blind mag that has already been cut back a little so nothing to lose except some time and brain cells trying to figure it all out, and at my age I don't have many cells to waste.
There was a thread here a few years ago with a step by step picture lay out start to finish so I need to try and find it, may be gone it was way before the change overs, and I am not that good when it comes to the search function.

Fred has a nice benchrest stock. Hell of a lot cheaper than the ones you see on those $5000 bench guns.

the savage is just as accurate but what those bench rest guys want is an action they can cycle without disturbing the rifle on the rest. the rifle should track. That way all they have to do Is push the rifle forward a little and they are back on target.

There are runners and pickers. Most are runners. They try to catch the wind like it was on their sighters and run them all before it changes. When you have to shoot in the ones to be competitive every little bit helps

can you do this with your savage action

https://youtu.be/y2QSXmY7S6Q

LongRange · 04-08-2016, 09:07 PM

Take a look here for stocks...

http://scopeusout.com/custom-rifle-s...racker-prices/

heres another...

https://mcmillanusa.com/mcmillan-rif...ks-tooley-mbr/

**rjtfroggy** · 04-09-2016, 06:42 AM

LR I have a " baby tracker " on my target action. Very nice stock, fits like a glove, but don't believe that listed price, that is only for the block of wood. Everything and I do mean everything is extra, by the time you are done the price is almost double and if you have done with a finish coat it will be more than double.

LongRange · 04-09-2016, 07:23 AM

yeah thats a little spendy but then again whats not expensive when your looking for as accurate as you can get LOL...they hold some BR matches here at our club i guess im going to have to go check them out and see what these guys are shooting.

**yobuck** · 04-09-2016, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by rjtfroggy

Yobuck some of these custom actions are like sliding a hot knife through melted butter, of course these are the real top end cnc'ed and then possibly stoned to perfection, but they are also in $3000 range and then some. I was at a match where one guys rifle & scope was probably in the $7000 plus range, his front rest was $1400, top of the line everything and he still didn't win but the rifle was beautiful to say the least.

I'm well aware of all that as I am familiar with some of these actions and have shot guns having them.
I still have one of several ive owned myself, although its an old one and isn't what you might call butter smooth.
I personaly think its just gotten to the point that's its so competitive, shooters are grasping at whatever straws they can
in hopes of winning.

**jonesturf** · 04-22-2016, 09:52 PM

For bench rest I see merit in a good action but that's about the only sport. For PRS sure it helps but it's more about the shooter. Most other sports are the same. We all know savage action can produce one hole groups with good barrels.

I honestly thought I would be competing with one by now (custom) and I do have one but I don't have time on it. Hard to validate not shooting the same rifle I've shot for the last 18k rounds when it still shoots lights out. I don't even notice my action when I run stages. After this barrel it is getting made into a 223 trainer though.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

**chetc** · 07-14-2016, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by sharpshooter

The guys that say that it can't been done with a Savage action are the same guys who couldn't do it with a custom action. One of these days they will realize it's not the sword, it's the swordsmanship. The last registered short range match I shot in turned a few heads after I shot a 100 yd heavy gun small group of .169" in hurricane conditions. Maybe some of you will remember this:
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...l-Finale-Match!

Hi Fred

I am curious, what caliber were you shooting and were you using the savage nut concept or the no nut set up

Chet

**yobuck** · 07-14-2016, 11:02 AM

uhhh I'm gonna crawl out on the limb and say he dosent use the nut. lol

**gbflyer** · 07-14-2016, 12:55 PM

You used to mainly see the custom actions at BR matches mostly because they are lighter, not just because they cost more or grouped better than anything else. It was thought better to save ounces in action weight and use them in the barrel. For that reason, the Stolle actions and the like were the mainstay. Not sure how it works today.