Which 6.5 Long Action

[bw34]

Trying to decide on which 6.5 long action to build. It's going to be a long range hunting rifle. I do reload. Kinda looking at the 6.5 x 284 or 6.5-06ai. Any suggestions?

[Oxn316]

6.5x55ai would be nice and have great lupua brass cheap.

[Robinhood]

6.5-06 or 264 magnum

[GaCop]

6.5x55ai would be nice and have great lapua brass cheap.

+1 for the Sweed AI! ........

[bw34]

I'll have to look into that one. Do you know how it compares to the others?

[WinnieTheBoom]

For as much love as the 6.5-06 gets on this site, there are a lot of people that disregard the .260 rem and .260 AI.

The PJ260 will push 140s to 2,900 fps easy.
The 260 AI will push 140s over 3,000 fps easy.
Both will be more than adequate for what you're wanting.

Also consider that both the 6.5x284 and 6.5-06 AI are going to be barrel burners to say the least.

[yobuck]

For (hunting) guns, you will shoot it more working up loads than you will for many years to follow.
Buy a 308 to practice with and save the barrel burner for hunting and a few rounds each year to
confirm zero. Consider this also, while the 6.5 cartridges are very good, 3000 fps with a 160+ gr bullet
is still better than with a 140 gr bullet for hunting. And a 7mm rem mag would give you that without
being the barrel burner the hot 6.5s would be. It would also give you more options to use both lighter and
heavier bullets up to 190 grains. Use at minimum a 26" barrel for best results. A 28" would offer the option
of later rechambering to a larger 7mm cartridge should you desire more horsepower.

[bw34]

For as much love as the 6.5-06 gets on this site, there are a lot of people that disregard the .260 rem and .260 AI.

The PJ260 will push 140s to 2,900 fps easy.
The 260 AI will push 140s over 3,000 fps easy.
Both will be more than adequate for what you're wanting.

Also consider that both the 6.5x284 and 6.5-06 AI are going to be barrel burners to say the least.

How will a .260 or .260ai feed in a long action?

[bw34]

For (hunting) guns, you will shoot it more working up loads than you will for many years to follow.
Buy a 308 to practice with and save the barrel burner for hunting and a few rounds each year to
confirm zero. Consider this also, while the 6.5 cartridges are very good, 3000 fps with a 160+ gr bullet
is still better than with a 140 gr bullet for hunting. And a 7mm rem mag would give you that without
being the barrel burner the hot 6.5s would be. It would also give you more options to use both lighter and
heavier bullets up to 190 grains. Use at minimum a 26" barrel for best results. A 28" would offer the option
of later rechambering to a larger 7mm cartridge should you desire more horsepower.

You bring up some good points. I've been going back and forth between building a gun more for practice and targets or strictly for hunting. This will be my first build but not my first gun. I'm 40 now and have grown up with them:).

I am a believer in shot placement over biggest bullet to an extent. But a 7mm is somethings I'd strongly consider.

[schnyd112]

I you like 6.5 bullets in a short action, 7mm bullets in a long action are just that much better. .280, .284, 7mm rem mag are just a few that will do everything you ever ask and be way easier on barrels than the 6.5's. You can shoot 195g all the way down to I think 120gr. High bc's, heavy weight, suited for anything that walks this country.

[WinnieTheBoom]

How will a .260 or .260ai feed in a long action?

Most would argue that they're better suited for LAs so that you don't run into seating depth constraints. With the correct mag you shouldn't have any problems.

[bw34]

I'm going to look harder at the 7mm before I make a decision. Any thoughts on the 7 stw?

Will the .260ai work in the factory la magazine?

[psharon97]

My opinion, is find a great load out of your rifle, then chrono the load to help develop the drop charts. Extreme muzzle velocity is not my end goal, but a great shooting load that is easier on the barrel. If I have to adjust the scope a few clicks, then that's what I'm going to have to do.

That being said, I do love the 7mm rem mag. It's very accurate, brass is plentiful, you have a much wider support for cartridges, but the biggest advantage over the other 6.5 cartridges out there, is you will always be able to find ammo for the rem mag out of just about every shooting store. I cannot say that about any of the 6.5s. I can get those, but those tend to be specialty cartridges. I reload too, but if I do plan on hunting anywhere out of my area and I forget my ammo, it's nice to run to the store, buy some ammo, then sight in my rifle.

[Robinhood]

For as much love as the 6.5-06 gets on this site, there are a lot of people that disregard the .260 rem and .260 AI.

The PJ260 will push 140s to 2,900 fps easy.
The 260 AI will push 140s over 3,000 fps easy.
Both will be more than adequate for what you're wanting.

Also consider that both the 6.5x284 and 6.5-06 AI are going to be barrel burners to say the least.

Blah Blah Blah

For (hunting) guns, you will shoot it more working up loads than you will for many years to follow.
Buy a 308 to practice with and save the barrel burner for hunting and a few rounds each year to
confirm zero. Consider this also, while the 6.5 cartridges are very good, 3000 fps with a 160+ gr bullet
is still better than with a 140 gr bullet for hunting. And a 7mm rem mag would give you that without
being the barrel burner the hot 6.5s would be. It would also give you more options to use both lighter and
heavier bullets up to 190 grains. Use at minimum a 26" barrel for best results. A 28" would offer the option
of later rechambering to a larger 7mm cartridge should you desire more horsepower.

Yep

[WinnieTheBoom]

Blah Blah Blah

See what I mean?

[yobuck]

I'm going to look harder at the 7mm before I make a decision. Any thoughts on the 7 stw?

Will the .260ai work in the factory la magazine?

The 7mm stw (shooting times westerner) started life as a wildcat cartridge. It is the 8 mm mag case necked down to 7mm.
Balisticly speaking it has about identicle performance as the 300 Weatherby case necked down to 7mm and known as the
7x300 Weatherby. I have been using the 7x300 Wby for about 45 years for long range hunting. I have a 9 twist barrel
which will stabilize the 180 gr bullets. Ive not tried the newer heavier ones but I doubt the twist in my gun would work well.
Weve killed more deer over many years with the 7x300 than all others we have combined. Meaning, most of the deer weve shot
have been less than 1000 yds. I find the 162 gr Hornady bullets still to be the best choice for me. With those I have seen velocities close to 3500 fps on cooler days. I don't recommend using loads that hot however. For hunting my load is about 3350 fps with the 162 gr hornady.
That is about 350fps faster than you will see from a 7 rem mag with the same bullet. The barrel one one of my 2 7x300s was originaly a 7 rem mag on a 40x rem rifle.
I had killed a deer at about 850 yds with a good hit, but the following year the gun was a 7x300 wby.
There is no substitute for mass coupled with velocity for long range hunting, and the longer the distance the more that applies.
The 7mm ultramag has a slight velocity advantage over both the others mentioned. Another very good large 7mm is the 284 Baer.
It uses the 340 weatherby case necked to 7mm. And there is also the newer 260 Nosler.

[WinnieTheBoom]

You're opening a different can of worms with 7mm rounds.

- 7mm Rem Mag
- 7mm WSM
- 7mm SAUM
- 7mm STW
- 7mm Practical (.300wm necked down to 7mm)
- 7mm Sherman
- 7mm Dakota
- 7mm-300 Wby

I mean you have SO many options if that's the route you so choose. Most of them are going to be barrel burners, some more so than others. If you're looking for those kinds of velocities out of 170+ weight projectiles, something, somewhere is going to have to give... And that usually ends up being the barrel.

That being said, the performance, especially for long range hunting, with any of those 7mms is going to be hard to beat. The .260ai should fit in your standard LA's but it won't hold a match to some of those 7's for what you're wanting to do... Look up 'LongRange's build thread as I believe that he has done some testing with the .260ai, that should answer some of the questions that you have about the bigger badder 6.5s.

[bw34]

Great info! Thanks. I need to do some soul searching on what I want:). I believe a 6.5 can do everything I need at the present time with less recoil. But the 7mm opens up more possibilities.

[yobuck]

Actually Winnie the performance of the 7mms isn't hard to beat. We have been very fortunate over the years
to have had very good bullets brought to market.
If you would go back to the 60s, the 6.5x300 Weatherby was the go to cartridge for serious long range hunters of which there were plenty in PA even then.
The reason was simply because the (only) good bullet was then the 139 gr Norma match bullet. (illeagle for use in PA due to its metal jacket)
But as soon as Hornady introduced the .284 162 gr match bullet that all changed. As good bullets began to appear in other calibers, guns were built for them. The 30x378 cartridge is a prime example, as is more recently the 338 cartridges.
Opinions on all this are actually meaningless. We all have them for whatever our reasons, but fact is that's all they are, opinions.
Anybody thinking their going to make a 7mm a better gun than a 30 cal is simply wrong, and that isn't an opinion, but simply a fact.
As for barrel burning, that will of coarse vary from individual to individual depending on how much they shoot their gun.
For what its worth, I'm still using a 30" Hart barrel chambered for 7x300 Wby since the early 70s. Its been used strictly for hunting and early on some rock shooting.
About 5 years ago I had Bruce Baer scope the barrel. (Any fool can buy a bore scope, but it takes an educated fool
to know what he's looking at lol). He said it still looked pretty good and so long as it still shot decent keep using it. I doubt there are 800 rounds thru that barrel in all these years.
Early on it was my only gun, but within a couple years I had recognized its limitations for best results. That brought about a 30x378 with heavier bullets which is now history also in favor of a 338.
They are all barrel burners, but that's the cost of admission if you want to play. But there is no need to be shooting these things just to keep yourself tuned up. A smaller gun like a 260 or a 308 is all you need for that.

[WinnieTheBoom]

I'd agree on certain things but it's not simply 7mm vs. .30 cal. There are too many variations thereof to make it that easy, and application is going to have A LOT to do with what's considered 'most effective.' There are plenty of 7mms that will outperform .30 cals in certain situations, and vice versa. In a vacuum, yes, .30 cals are superior to 7mms because they are larger diameter (and often heavier), nothing else.

Fortunately (or unfortunately) it's not quite as simple as that in the world of shooting, but I can tell you that there are plenty of guys that would prefer the higher velocity/flatter trajectory of a 7mm vs. .30 cal. It really just comes down to personal preference. 'Superior performance' lies in the eyes of the beholder, so whether you think a 7mm can or can't perform to the level of a .30 cal really just depends.

[yobuck]

Velocity is hands down better with 30 cal Winnie if you go with the larger 30 calibers.
With a 30x378 you could send a 230 berger at better speeds than with a large 7mm with the 195s.
And frankly, if you shoot less than 285/300 gr bullets in the 338s with less than about 2900 fps velocity, you might just as well stick with 30 cal.

[Hotolds442]

Velocity is hands down better with 30 cal Winnie if you go with the larger 30 calibers.

Huh?

With a 30x378 you could send a 230 berger at better speeds than with a large 7mm with the 195s.
And frankly, if you shoot less than 285/300 gr bullets in the 338s with less than about 2900 fps velocity, you might just as well stick with 30 cal.

That's true if you're doing your "style" of hunting, ridge top to ridge top at 1500 yards and more. Here, west of the Cascades, a 300 yard shot is rare so a 338 Federal is plenty, even for elk. I've killed more elk with my 350 Remington Mags than all the other rifles in my safe, and I've never had to pass up a shot due to the limitations of the cartridge - and there are many. Drive to the other side of the Cascades, about 50 miles, and it's a whole different ballgame, but even the lowly 338 Winchester pushing a 250 at 2650 is more than enough to get the job done.
And let's do apples to apples - as far as case capacity goes your 30x378 will not push a 230 faster than a 7x378 with a 195 no matter how you slice it. The 7 wins for the 7-800 rounds you'd get out of a barrel. I'd still choose the 30x378 though just for the added energy, if I needed something that powerful here.

[WinnieTheBoom]

Velocity is hands down better with 30 cal Winnie if you go with the larger 30 calibers.
With a 30x378 you could send a 230 berger at better speeds than with a large 7mm with the 195s.
And frankly, if you shoot less than 285/300 gr bullets in the 338s with less than about 2900 fps velocity, you might just as well stick with 30 cal.

I'm sorry yobuck but that's simply incorrect. A 30-378 will sling 200gr bullets to MAYBE 3,100 fps. A 7mm Allen Magnum (based on a .338 Lapua case) will sling 200 gr bullets over 3,300 fps. The point being that all else being equal, namely case capacity, 7mm velocity will ALWAYS trump .30 cal velocity. This is not opinion, this is fact.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'larger .30 calibers,' but at least compare apples to apples.

[yobuck]

Huh?


That's true if you're doing your "style" of hunting, ridge top to ridge top at 1500 yards and more. Here, west of the Cascades, a 300 yard shot is rare so a 338 Federal is plenty, even for elk. I've killed more elk with my 350 Remington Mags than all the other rifles in my safe, and I've never had to pass up a shot due to the limitations of the cartridge - and there are many. Drive to the other side of the Cascades, about 50 miles, and it's a whole different ballgame, but even the lowly 338 Winchester pushing a 250 at 2650 is more than enough to get the job done.
And let's do apples to apples - as far as case capacity goes your 30x378 will not push a 230 faster than a 7x378 with a 195 no matter how you slice it. The 7 wins for the 7-800 rounds you'd get out of a barrel. I'd still choose the 30x378 though just for the added energy, if I needed something that powerful here.

One question, have you personaly ever seen, or do you have any friends who have owned, shot or even watched a 7x378 shot?
How about a 6.5x378? What were talking about here is not reality in any practical sence, but really what id refer to as mental masturbation.
The 6.5 and the 7x378 were both tried many many years ago and I can name a few who tried them and name who built the guns.
I can also tell you who refused to build the guns. The names of the good gunsmiths are well known today. Call a few and ask about these type ideas.
Dismal failure is all I can say about both of them. It would be a 6.5 wsm in spades, and as we both know that's a failure also.
You will have pressure before you can obtain the velocity you can get with the 30 caliber with the 7mm using the heavy bullets.
I couldn't match the velocity of my 7x300 wby with my 6.5 wsm comparing 140s to the 162s. because of pressure problems.
Put together a real 30x378 on a custom action and a barrel of 32" or more using 230 gr bullets and then lets talk and compare guns.
Look, that custom 30x378 can send a 200 gr bullet at 3500 fps and you can take that to the bank. Yet a 338 cartridge at 3000 fps with a 300 gr will have passed the 30x378 before they reach 1500 yds and you can take that to the bank also. So why would anybody think a 7mm with a 195 at (maybe) 3250 fps would stand a chance against either of those at that distance?
All that said, if I were forced to keep just one of my hunting guns, it would be one of my 7x300 wbys.

Now as for the type of hunting some of us do in some segments of the state of PA is by choice. Each of us could if we chose, make the same choice. Not everybody including those who live in those areas choose to hunt that way.
I have been residing in Florida for 16 years and frankly I could hunt here without even buying a licence since i'm over 65. Same goes for fishing here, that's free also for residents over 65.
I drive 1200 miles each way and buy non res PA hunting and fishing licenses because that's my choice. Life is all about choices, hunting and how we hunt is but one of them.

[Hotolds442]

Short answer: Yes. With today's powder selection, the 7x378 is more feasible than it was 60 years ago when you were mentally masturbating or whatever you choose to call it. Barrel life is still an issue, accuracy had fallen off after 250 rounds in 2 different kreiger barrels. He's happier now with the 30/378 and isn't looking for an alternative. But it's overkill on this side of the states.