Savage Action Straight Wall Cartridge

[Ol' BW]

There are plenty of rifles, including the Handi-Rifle and T/C Encore/Contender in 357, 44, 444, 45/70 etc.

If you start talking about rechambering anyway, a few of the other calibers can be easily chambered in existing single shot rifles a lot easier than rechambering a lever action. You can rechamber a single shot 357 to 357 max at home in an hour or so!

BW

[handirifle]

Now you're talking. I forgot about the mag to max conversion. I would NOT recommend the Handi in 38-55 since they have had a terrible time with bore diameter consistency. I have owned many Handi's, still have 2 in the safe, and the 38-55 was the least accurate, seconded by the 223. The only way to make the Handi 38-55 accurate is with handloaded oversize bullets. Many then had issues with them not feeding into the chamber.

The best results have some from getting a 30-30 Handi, and having it re-bored to 375 Win or 38-55 by JES. He bores them both to 375 Win specs.

But the 357 Max is an excellent idea.

[Ol' BW]

A little off topic, but interesting reading:

Reaming mag to max:
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?topic=323769.0

357 max AR:
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?topic=310800.0

BW

[earl39]

Only issue is changing bullets changes headspace or trim length. YMMV

I am still hung up on this.
Changing bullets might change seating depth but all cartridges headspace off the rim for rimmed rounds, the belt for belted, the shoulder for non-belted, and the mouth for straight walled rimless. Your trim length stays the same.

[FW Conch]

^ +1 ? ^

[defoxer]

Straight walled only huh...... So the intent is to limit rifles to handgun chamberings, correct??

The only straight walled chambered rifles I have are 44RemMag and thelittle 458Lott....

So its the Lott!

Although not in a sav, I have a 375H&H in a sav 116, So i'm sure the 45 cl in the similar case should work/feed ok....

[Hotolds442]

Straight walled only huh...... So the intent is to limit rifles to handgun chamberings, correct??
The only straight walled chambered rifles I have are 44RemMag and thelittle 458Lott....
So its the Lott!
Although not in a sav, I have a blah blah blah........

Thats nice, but once again, he's building a rifle for hunting in Ohio and the Lott is not on the list of approved cartridges.

[Ol' BW]

The 45-70 is listed as well as the 444 Marlin. Both of which are normally classified as rifle cartridges so they are not limited to handgun chamberings.

BW

[handirifle]

If the OP does not want a new gun, I'd go the 450 Marlin, and load it down to tolerable recoil levels. Put a good recoil pad on it, load it with some Barnes 300gr TSX's at about 1800fps, and knock down anything that gets in its path. That is my deer load for my Marlin 45-70.

[handirifle]

That load in my Marlin prints clover leafs at 100yds and recoils about like a 308.

[Hotolds442]

If the OP does not want a new gun, I'd go the 450 Marlin, and load it down to tolerable recoil levels. Put a good recoil pad on it, load it with some Barnes 300gr TSX's at about 1800fps, and knock down anything that gets in its path. That is my deer load for my Marlin 45-70.

Although untested, I still believe that the rim of a 444 Marlin can be turned down to work in a .473 bolt face. 100 rounds of modified brass would last a long time and the head stamp would meet the requirements of the state. Without the rim, there would be no feeding issues, and it should be a blast to shoot.

[sixonetonoffun]

I am still hung up on this.
Changing bullets might change seating depth but all cartridges headspace off the rim for rimmed rounds, the belt for belted, the shoulder for non-belted, and the mouth for straight walled rimless. Your trim length stays the same.

Kind of true. But to prevent the brass from stretching and grabbing the rifling on high power loads you need about .002-.003 clearance.

Which creates the potential of the firing pin pushing the cartridge forward instead of igniting the primer. With most bullets I have used being designed for 500 S&W the bullets change overall length to contact rifling significantly.

Not an issue for a true controlled feed. But push feed jammed to the rifling is the only way to guarantee a bang instead of a click.

I am going to stick to one bullet eventually for now. Until I come across the right deal on a controlled feed rum length action. Probably a Hawk bullet for the 505gibbs sized down to .501

[Ol' BW]

Kind of true. But to prevent the brass from stretching and grabbing the rifling on high power loads you need about .002-.003 clearance.

Which creates the potential of the firing pin pushing the cartridge forward instead of igniting the primer. With most bullets I have used being designed for 500 S&W the bullets change overall length to contact rifling significantly.

Not an issue for a true controlled feed. But push feed jammed to the rifling is the only way to guarantee a bang instead of a click.

I am going to stick to one bullet eventually for now. Until I come across the right deal on a controlled feed rum length action. Probably a Hawk bullet for the 505gibbs sized down to .501

I'm not really sure what you are talking about here with brass stretching forward enough grab the rifling. Most chambers I have ever had any experience with had room for the bullet to sit, long before the brass even gets close to the rifling. The bullet is normally the only thing that comes close enough to touch the rifling.

I agree that brass stretches, but I have never seen brass that stretched far enough that it was as long as the COL of a fully loaded round, even after multiple firings.

Now, without trimming your brass to the proper length, I agree that a situation can occur that the brass comes into contact with the narrowed portion of the chamber BEFORE the rifling and pinch the bullet, creating a dangerous over-pressure situation.

As to bullets changing COL that is very true. A bullet will only touch the rifling if you seat it out far enough to touch the rifling. If your chamber is cut to headspace on the case mouth, it should have proper headspace even with empty brass that is correctly processed. I would venture to say if the only way you can get your rifle to fire is to load your bullets out far enough to "jam" them into the rifling, you probably have excessive headspace.

BW

[m12lrs]

I believe this is the way I would go. I like the 444 but the 45-70 would get the job done too!

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firear...re/1895SBL.asp

lever actions are fast and fun. Great brush guns. Hunt the thick stuff for close shots.

[sixonetonoffun]

1895 45-70 new under $600 @wm. Hard to go wrong.

[sixonetonoffun]

BW it probably wouldn't be an issue at handgun or even 45-70 velocity. But I am closer to 458wm velocity of = weight bullets.

My Hornady basic brass runs a little soft exaggerating the stretch factor slightly. Also heavy crimping to get consistent burns and low es. All in all tons of fun.

[earl39]

Kind of true. But to prevent the brass from stretching and grabbing the rifling on high power loads you need about .002-.003 clearance.

Which creates the potential of the firing pin pushing the cartridge forward instead of igniting the primer. With most bullets I have used being designed for 500 S&W the bullets change overall length to contact rifling significantly.

Not an issue for a true controlled feed. But push feed jammed to the rifling is the only way to guarantee a bang instead of a click.

I am going to stick to one bullet eventually for now. Until I come across the right deal on a controlled feed rum length action. Probably a Hawk bullet for the 505gibbs sized down to .501

If trimming .002-.003 caused ignition problem you have other problems that need to be solved. Most bottleneck cartridges from the factory have .002+ clearance and they headspace on the shoulder which allows the firing pin to push them forward and they seem to pop just fine. Maybe you have you pin set to short or is dragging, spring is weak, you are trimming more than you need to or there may be something else causing problems. If your brass is stretching that much you may be way over pressure which raises other safety questions when passing on the load you use. Not trying to flame just trying to explain.
The end result is still this thread is only for cartridges listed as legal to hunt in Ohio with and when you go to court with a ticket the judge will follow the law and a wildcat that is close to what the law allows is still not legal. "56 in a 55 may not get you a ticket but it is still breaking the law"

[handirifle]

Why trim the 450 Marlin case at all????? All you need is the bolt head for ANY magnum cartridge, like the 300WM, it's the same size. He buys a barrel, and bolt head, and headspace tools, install barrel, set headspace, replace bolt head with magnum (.513 I think) and go shoot gun. Buy a box of factory ammo and see how he likes it, then reload to suit.

He can load 300gr loads to the 1800fps factory 45-70 levels and just get a nice push at the shoulder, and venison on the table. No guessing if it's approved, no feeding issues, no problem.