Tales of a "butcher" 'smith - chopping a barrel on the cheap

**Newtosavage** · 02-13-2016, 08:37 PM

I forget who said something about me being a ham-fisted gunsmith (I'm not a gunsmith at all) but they are probably not far off. ha, ha. I'm just not afraid to try things, whether or not I have the right tools. Guess it's from my "modest" upbringing of making things work...

Anyway, I have been wanting to chop my 22" model 11 barrel back to 20" for a while now. Don't ask me why. I just did. I had this idea in my mind for some time that the ultimate lightweight deer rifle was under 40" total length, with a 20" barrel and under 7 lbs. Well, to get my model 11 within those specs, I needed to chop 2" off the factory barrel. That would also take me from 7 lbs. to 6 lbs. 14 oz. total weight.

I had some experience re-crowning a few air rifle barrels with good success, and I recently re-crowned my Ruger 77 RSI with equally good success - both using the brass screw and toothpaste in a cordless drill method. I hadn't hurt the accuracy in any of those guns, and most likely improved it, so I was ready to do the same with my Savage model 11.

So yesterday was the day. I mounted the gun in my vise, got out a fresh new hacksaw blade and chopped 2" off the end of my .308 barrel. Then I took a mill ******* file and as carefully as I could, squared up the end, checking it with a small level and square. When I was satisfied with that, I tried (for the first time) the "Lee case trimmer" method of cutting a target crown (look it up, it's a thing). I have a 7x57 mandrel for my Lee case trimmer, so I shimmed the inside of the .308 barrel with some aluminum, greased the barrel, inserted the trimmer and started turning. Try as I might, I couldn't get it to stop chattering or skipping, so I didn't play with that very long at all. But I was able to use it to confirm that my cut was square, so it did serve a purpose.

I then filed the outside edge very carefully to round it off. That was fairly simple by turning the barrel in my hand as I filed at an angle to the edge.

Next, I got out the brass screw and toothpaste, just like I had for my Ruger. And I started going to work....

Nothing. I mean Nothing! That Savage barrel must be hard as hell because I went through two large brass screws and you couldn't even tell I did a thing! I had broken a sweat and spent the better part of an hour - not to mention two Dewalt batteries - trying to make a dent in the crown. That was very depressing. So I quit for the night.

This morning, after looking at the price of crowning tools, I decided I was going to get more aggressive. So I broke out the Dremel bit with the round abrasive stone, chucked it in the drill and started working in the muzzle with a circular motion. THAT produced some results! Within a few minutes, I had a recessed (albeit rough) crown to the depth I wanted it. So, what to do about the roughness? I took a piece of 600-grit sandpaper and with my thumb, started working that crown in a circular motion. I did this until my thumb cramped, and it actually came out really nice. As smooth (dare I say) as a factory crown.

My final step was to get out the brass screw and toothpaste and polish that crown. I did this for about 20 minutes until I was satisfied that it was as good as it was going to get, then I headed to the range. I was completely prepared for that sub-MOA rifle to start spraying groups due to my ineptness.

The results? Absolutely NO change in group size from the factory 22" barrel. None. In fact, it may have gotten better. I shot sub-MOA groups (with my handloads) at 100, 200 and 300 yards, finishing with a 2" group at the longest distance. I was elated!

I used some cold blue (blueing pen) to finish it off, and honestly, if you didn't know it was done in my garage you'd never guess it.

So now I have my sub- 7 lb., sub-40", sub-MOA .308 with a handy and stiff 20" barrel. I'm a happy camper. :D

Just wanted to share this in case anyone else was thinking of shortening their factory Savage barrel. It can be done with common workshop tools and some elbow grease, but don't expect it to be a 10-minute job. It ain't. Those Savage barrels are **** hard!

**Newtosavage** · 02-13-2016, 08:45 PM

One last thing, I know Savage makes their Lightweight Hunter and it looks like a beautiful rifle, but looking at rifles everywhere, there are very, very few accurate bolt action rifles under 6.5 lbs. I was very surprised when I started looking at lightweight rifles. They are rare, and they are expensive. My stock model 11 (started out as an Trophy Hunter XP package) with the Tupperware stock and chopped barrel weighs only 6 lbs. 4 oz.! The K6 Weaver I have on it adds only 10 oz., bringing it to 6 lbs. 14 oz. total. I'm not sure how many full-sized bolt action .308's can claim that weight and still shoot sub-MOA for under $600. I'm not sure why anyone would pay the prices they are asking for some of the custom "mountain" rifles.

**triglet** · 02-14-2016, 01:35 AM

Tell us you took pics of this process???

**67tundra** · 02-14-2016, 02:40 AM

I recently took a 270 from 22 inches to 18.5 with close to the same process. I started with the good ol hack saw. Then filed it square. Then I took a pan head screw with valve lapping compound. Then a new screw and 400 grit, then 600, and finished with 1000. The gun shoots like a dream and is easy to handle.

**Newtosavage** · 02-14-2016, 09:02 AM

Sorry, I didn't take pics along the way, although I will take some "after the fact" this morning. My camera battery was stone dead yesterday.

67, I was very reluctant to take anything more aggressive than the brass screw and toothpaste to my muzzle at first. But it soon became apparent that the steel in that barrel was so hard, the brass wasn't going to "cut it" - so like you, I headed for the grinding/sanding material. I can't overstate how well just using your thumb and a piece of plain 'ol sandpaper works for this. It really made a big difference in my muzzle, taking out all the marks from the grinding ball and giving me a nice rounded barrel both outside and inside - much like the factory muzzle. I felt that the final lapping with the brass bolt and paste was the best way to finish off the job, and apparently it's a legitimate process since my gun is still shooting great.

I don't think this is a job that anyone who is the least bit handy with tools should be afraid of. Maybe one of the easier home-smithing jobs you can tackle.

**67tundra** · 02-14-2016, 09:23 AM

Agreed I just put some blue layout die on the muzzle of mine to make sure I had everything smooth. It looks factory other than I left layout die on the end to act as blueing even though it doesn't match.

**Newtosavage** · 02-14-2016, 09:42 AM

Here are a few pics of the tools (minus the Birchwood-Casey bluing pen and toothpaste) and the finished muzzle, the gun and a 200-yard sub-1" group I shot yesterday.

**geezerhood** · 02-14-2016, 02:25 PM

I am kind of ashamed to admit it in public, but I too am a Butcher 'Smith.

I have hacksawed 6 barrels myself over the years, flat filed by hand, deburred with a brass ball lap. Some were left flat, others I put an 11 degree crown on them with a PTG tool. In every case they shot significantly better after the butchering. One of them, a .223 24" factory heavy in carbon steel, given to me by someone who hated it, that was about 1.5 MOA with match bullets turned into a 20" tube - It is now 1/3 to 1/2 MOA ten shot group shooter. Another one was a factory 308 Remington barrel, standard taper, cut to 16" and installed on an XP100 pistol. I don't know how it shot as a rifle, but it was a 3/4 MOA or better gun after the butchering using my 3-12x Burris pistol scope.

Someday I am going to buy a Manson crowning tool.....but the dang tool costs a much as a premium barrel! I have heard of a few gunsmiths who prefer crowning with the Manson over their lathe, so they must be pretty nice.

**triglet** · 02-14-2016, 02:48 PM

Looks good

**futurerider103** · 02-14-2016, 03:18 PM

That crown looks very factory. I've often thought of doing that but just don't have anything to do it on. But I've even got a 2 part video on my youtube page faved for further information purposes

**Newtosavage** · 02-14-2016, 08:43 PM

She shot like a champ today again! :D

Getting a very consistent 2370 fps out of this 20" barrel with a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic tip over 39 grains of H4895 - not really much of a loss vs. the 22" barrel. Maybe 15 fps.

Every group I shot at 100 yards, with four different loads from 150 grain bullets and 39 grains of 4895/RL-15, to 168 grain bullets over 44 grains of RL-15, shot 1" or better.

**bedlamite** · 02-14-2016, 09:08 PM

Clover compound used with a ball bearing that is 2.6 times the bore diameter works very well, and will produce an approximately 11 degree crown. 5/8" for .224-.257, and 3/4" for .264-.308.

**foxx** · 02-14-2016, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by bedlamite

Clover compound used with a ball bearing that is 2.6 times the bore diameter works very well, and will produce an approximately 11 degree crown. 5/8" for .224-.257, and 3/4" for .264-.308.

How do you "fix" the ball bearing to your drill/lathe? Just chuck it and tighten down?

**bedlamite** · 02-14-2016, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by foxx

How do you "fix" the ball bearing to your drill/lathe? Just chuck it and tighten down?

If you have a lathe, you wouldn't be doing what should be considered a field expedient repair.

**Newtosavage** · 02-14-2016, 10:28 PM

So please tell us the secret of securing a ball bearing to something that rotates. Otherwise I'll be stuck with sub-MOA accuacy from a brass-screw-lapped bore.

**bedlamite** · 02-14-2016, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Newtosavage

So please tell us the secret of securing a ball bearing to something that rotates. Otherwise I'll be stuck with sub-MOA accuacy from a brass-screw-lapped bore.

If you can't figure that out you probably shouldn't be doing it.

**futurerider103** · 02-14-2016, 10:46 PM

Nice positive direction there

**67tundra** · 02-14-2016, 10:47 PM

I'd say a man could weld a rod to the bearing then chuck it up in the drill.

GrumpyGuns · 02-14-2016, 10:55 PM

I did the same to my .223. I cut 4 inches off the end filed it square then used a brass screw in the o'le DeWalt with valve lapping compound to clean it up. I didn't even round over the edges. The shorter barrel has improved the accuracy a touch and it handles like a dream.

**FW Conch** · 02-15-2016, 12:33 AM

I have seen it done with a ball grinding stone, or a carriage bolt. Just chuck the appropriate size in a drill. Results were as mentioned as above.

JW · 02-15-2016, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by bedlamite

If you can't figure that out you probably shouldn't be doing it.

I can't figure it out either, except by using your fingers
Please let us know how you used the ball bearing
I do not plan on doing a crown with one just curious
Thanks
Jack

**bedlamite** · 02-15-2016, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by JW

I can't figure it out either, except by using your fingers

You just did. Similar to chalk on a pool cue. Doing it with a drill is too hard to keep it centered and can take off too much too quick.

**Newtosavage** · 02-15-2016, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by futurerider103

Nice positive direction there

Right.

I guess there's one on every forum though.

**WinnieTheBoom** · 02-15-2016, 10:08 AM

Hey do what works best for you man. Just because something is viewed as 'hacked' or 'wrong' or however you want to put it doesn't make it so... Different strokes for different folks. I'm sure there are some folks out there that had the same idea as you, only weren't as lucky with the execution. Maybe they chopped 4" off a sub-MOA barrel only to turn it into a 2.5 MOA barrel.

If it works for you, who cares?