Reply With QuoteYou need a few of those, Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
You need a few of those, Dean
Guess I'm not sure if/what you are after here Dean, but here is my ramblings.
Those scopes are nice enough, but really are terribly over-priced for what you get.
The Weaver #800363, and PA 4-14 Has that much adjustment, from a 30mm tube. Matching Turrets/reticles, in FFP. Neither have the quality of glass, but IME where you notice it is beyond 1,000yards. For the masses who want to shoot longer range, but aren't competitive, the $229 PA gives you effectively what BEAST has to offer.
If your competing at a level where ANY advantage is needed, fine and dandy. But they aren't the second coming.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
That is what I was getting at, I was looking at the specs and just couldn't see it. I am not knocking NF I would just take three bench rest models for that price.
Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
I'm not saying they are worth the price, but...
FFP
56mm Objective
120 MOA elevation adjustment
5x zoom
Zero Stop
Decent glass
Exact and repeatable adjustment
Tough enough for competition and military use
All of those things and more are what make it worth the money. If you're shopping for a scope that does every one of those things the list gets pretty short and the prices get pretty high.
"Muzzle velocity is a depreciating asset, not unlike a new car, but BC, like diamonds, is forever."-German A. Salazar
That last one is what really weeds out most scopes. Truth is, however, that the vast majority of us never really need a scope that tough. The precision rifle competition crowd, and wannabes thereof, will buy them.Originally Posted by geargrinder
About as much market as the 10k linux powered self rangeing, auto windage thingy that will never make to my door either.
Well back in my day the gun adds typicly had a pipe smoking dad wiping down his rifle while son was laying on the floor dreaming of his day.
Today, most adds show a beast of a man who dosent even need a gun to kill his prey. While sons home in his room playing computer games.
So its only fitting that a scope be introduced for those types of individuals. Hey, it might be perfect for a home brewed 338 Lapua.
I want one, i want one. lol
How come old E P Barnum knew so much when he quoined those still famous words?
at $4300 bucks not much of a market at all IMHO...you pay $500 extra for the H59 reticle and even at $3800 for one with an MOAR type reticle they are still pretty pricy for a front focal plane scope...especially since vortex came out with the gen2...with that said i have a ATACR 2nd FP scope i bought 8yrs ago and it has been through hell and back and still tracks as true as the day i opened the box.
a buddy of mine just got an ATACR F-1 but i havent had a chance to look through it...i just bought a vortex gen2 and its an awesome scope so far...it would of been an F-1 if night force would update their reticles.
Except not quite.
FFP - fine, easily matched
56mm obj - Again, fine
120MOA elevation -- Ohhhh, so here is the rub. By their own spec page, it isn't 120 MOA, or they don't know how to do the math, as they list it as 34.9 mil. 34.9 mil and 120 MOA are not the same amount. They also can't seem to match the windage adjustment, that is much less.
5x zoom - Fine, again this isn't uncommon.
Zero stop - Fine, this is needed for those who don't know equipt, but as someone prefers.
Decent Glass - Again, fine, can be matched easily enough
Exact & repeatable adjustments - Again easily matched.
Tough enough for comp & military - So is a Tasco, so what?! Everyone has warranty issues, this is promotional fluff.
--Tube Diameter - To get all of this purported magic adjustment range, they had to go to a 34mm tube. Now you gotta spend some extra cheddar, to buy the not common rings!!
The Primary Arms 4-14
Has those precise & repeatable adjustments
Has FFP Matched Turret/reticle
Has a very common 30mm tube
Has BOTH 34.5 mils of Elevation and Windage
Has Glass that most others offer in $800 scopes
Mine has 1500 rounds of Creed fired, a few hundred 308, and rolled down a hill strapped to a 4-wheeler, No issues with it.
Does it have the last few pieces that the Nightforce has? Certainly not. One of those pieces being that price tag, I get almost the identical specs for only $229.
Will it last as long as the NF? Well for the price of each, it better not; or there will be some pissed NF owners.
Does it have the same quality of glass? Absolutely not, but is it worth THAT much more? I leave that to the user. I have shot NF, I don't think so personally.
This is really a discussion of Chevy Malibu Vs. Ferrari California T
Do you want to drive to the store, get groceries, take the kids to the movies, have a long lasting car, etc. Then the average schmoe doesn't buy the Ferrari for that. Now, if you got the scratch and don't mind there is a certain "air" to owning a Ferrari; then NO WAY you take the Chevy.
Neither choice is "Wrong"..... Unless you are the one short of cash.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
This is the exact point I was trying to make.
The Nightforce has a combination of features that very few scope makers offer. Features that make people pay big $$$ for.
I'm happy for you that your scope does everything you need for only $229.
"Muzzle velocity is a depreciating asset, not unlike a new car, but BC, like diamonds, is forever."-German A. Salazar
..Well there you have it
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
I have one question.Except not quite.
FFP - fine, easily matched
56mm obj - Again, fine
120MOA elevation -- Ohhhh, so here is the rub. By their own spec page, it isn't 120 MOA, or they don't know how to do the math, as they list it as 34.9 mil. 34.9 mil and 120 MOA are not the same amount. They also can't seem to match the windage adjustment, that is much less.
5x zoom - Fine, again this isn't uncommon.
Zero stop - Fine, this is needed for those who don't know equipt, but as someone prefers.
Decent Glass - Again, fine, can be matched easily enough
Exact & repeatable adjustments - Again easily matched.
Tough enough for comp & military - So is a Tasco, so what?! Everyone has warranty issues, this is promotional fluff.
--Tube Diameter - To get all of this purported magic adjustment range, they had to go to a 34mm tube. Now you gotta spend some extra cheddar, to buy the not common rings!!
The Primary Arms 4-14
Has those precise & repeatable adjustments
Has FFP Matched Turret/reticle
Has a very common 30mm tube
Has BOTH 34.5 mils of Elevation and Windage
Has Glass that most others offer in $800 scopes
Mine has 1500 rounds of Creed fired, a few hundred 308, and rolled down a hill strapped to a 4-wheeler, No issues with it.
Does it have the last few pieces that the Nightforce has? Certainly not. One of those pieces being that price tag, I get almost the identical specs for only $229.
Will it last as long as the NF? Well for the price of each, it better not; or there will be some pissed NF owners.
Does it have the same quality of glass? Absolutely not, but is it worth THAT much more? I leave that to the user. I have shot NF, I don't think so personally.
This is really a discussion of Chevy Malibu Vs. Ferrari California T
Do you want to drive to the store, get groceries, take the kids to the movies, have a long lasting car, etc. Then the average schmoe doesn't buy the Ferrari for that. Now, if you got the scratch and don't mind there is a certain "air" to owning a Ferrari; then NO WAY you take the Chevy.
Neither choice is "Wrong"..... Unless you are the one short of cash.
Where were you while the 4 wheeler was rolling down the hill?
Here it is on NF site.
http://www.nightforceusa.com/nightfo...-h59-c449.aspx
Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
Hopefully not strapped to the 4 wheeler also!
"An armed society is a polite society"
"...shall not be infringed" What's the confusion?
Exactly my point, and he woke up believing $250 scopes are better than $4000 scopes lol.
But ill be dissapointed if he dosent have a better answer than that. Besides, i know full well
it could have been a very serious mater.
Tasco's for the military? Seriously? God help us.
Are you in the market for one of those dean? You get what you pay for but that's a nice chunk of change.
lol...I'm thinking not.
THe scope survived the tumble just fine, but you can see what happened to Darkker!
Well they would first need to jack the price way up in order to cover
the cost of doing (business) with the government.
But those who live by government contracts can also starve without them.
Tasco is no doubt smart enough to know who and what Tasco is and is willing to live within those confines, known as a nitch.
Most of their followers know it also and do likewise.
Darkker do the math again. 1mil is 3.6 inches@ 100 yards. 1 moa is 1.047 inches@ 100 yards. Math works out correctly. Other than that i will stick to my Sightron scopes much like you plan to stay with your PA scopes.
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:32 (New King James Version)
No I am not I just brought it up because, I had to do a double take on the price. I would go with 3 NightForce Bench rest 12-42X56 or 4 Sightron 10-50X60 with my $4000.00 +
Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
I don't know, but I bet it would look pretty good sitting on top of my $475 Hog Hunter, custom-bedded-with-JB Weld-Tacticool stock and EGW base!
I was standing at the top of the hill, watching my rifle, friend, and 4-wheeler all tumble to the bottom. No one lost any fingers, so it's all fun and games; still wish he hadn't done that, but wasn't a purposeful deal.
Super Snipers, which had a Naval contract, were Tasco originally.
Gotta love Least-Cost bidding
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
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