Building lessons learned to help build #2

[jtmoose]

I built my first rifle on a Stevens 200 SA and now I want to have you validate some lessons I think I learned along the way.

1.) I couldn't rebarrell to anything I wanted because it was a short action so it would seem that a long action would make a better platform.
2.) Not sure if I could rebarrell to a wsm being a small Shank.
3.) Hunting the PNW made me want to build with stainless.

That said, I have seen a few different actions that could work. I would appreciate some good advice for choosing the action. It appears my options would be 16, 116, and 12. The 116 is a small Shank, the 12 is a large, I think the 16 comes in small or large Shank, correct?

It will be 90% for hunting Elk, deer, and black bear in the mountains, 10% for target shooting at as far as I can improve to.

What action would make the most sense? Are there other stainless actions? Is the 12 an OK action to build a hunting rifle on?

[scooterf79]

Im not sure Im reading your question(s) correctly but to clarify some things:
Long actions are 3 digits ie: 110, 112, 111, 116
Short actions are 2 digits ie; 10, 12, 16.
Before Savage made an actual short action they were all 3 digits, but a short action cartridge had the opening in the receiver machined smaller (short).
116, 16 actions are stainless. So if you're wanting stainless thats the action(s) you need.
All my actions are LA for the reason of building either cartridge.
An overwhelming majority(90%+) of actions are small shank except the WSM, target actions, and the RUMs. So just because its a 12 doesn't mean it a large shank.
Im not sure if you can do a WSM cart on a LA because of the bolt head...someone else can chime in on that.
The actions are all pretty much identical with the exception of a few differences, top bolt vs bottom bolt release, CF vs SF etc....
I hope this helps some....
Scooter

[67tundra]

I believe you can find small shank wsm and ultra mags in the aftermarket world.

[GaCop]

I'm not real sure never having worked with the short mag cartridges but, you may end up with magazine feeding issues if you build one on a long action. It can be done but would require the use of a single shot follower.

[WinnieTheBoom]

- WSM/RUM cartridges into a small shank were/are built on large shank actions from the factory just for added security.
- You're able to find prefit barrels with those chamberings for small shank actions, and though it's generally not advisable to go that route, I haven't heard of any catastrophic failures because of it.
- LAs are (generally speaking) more versatile than short actions, but it ultimately comes down to preference. As GaCop said, depending on what you're wanting to build, you may have feeding issues if you're building a repeater. For example, I wouldn't build a 6.5 Grendel on a LA, but ymmv.

[bsekf]

I too, use Long Action stagger feed for everything. 260, 6.5x47, 22-250. I stay with the .473 bolt face and when loading the magazine I make sure the cartridges are to the rear of the magazine. Have had no problem feeding. Something real short like 6BR, might be a different story. I haven't done it, but have heard you can bend the lips of the magazine to correct problems feeding.

[yobuck]

If you want a wsm cartridge, id buy a gun being a wsm to start with.
I did one on a model 12 and getting advise on how to make the magazine work was the easy part.
I did find and buy a 116 stainless, but couldnt switch the barrel due to it being on the 12 small shank action.
I wasent up to speed on the various size actions with Savage.

[jtmoose]

My mistake, I found where I read that the 12 was large shank, the reference only specified the LRPV model.

Is there a large weight penalty or other drawbacks for a large shank action?

Can someone clarify what they're referring to about the bolt head regarding the wsm cartridges?

It seems there are more aftermarket stock choices for the short action, is that accurate?

Right now I'm torn between a 308win, 6.5-284, or 270wsm for the build. So it seems that:

SA small shank is only appropriate for the 308
SA large shank is appropriate for 308 or 270wsm
LA small Shank is appropriate for the 308 or 6.5-284

[scooterf79]

Nope, no weight difference to speak of.....
Bolt head.....there are different bolt head sizes for different cartridges. .473 is 308, 30-06, 6.5x284 270 etc (theres a plethora of cartridges that will run on .473.
Theres also a magnum .532 fits all the magnums except the really big mags (338 lapua, some of the larger wby mags(if my mind serves me correctly )
Theres .378 its the small. .204, .223, and those lines.
The WSM uses the .532 mag head.
Stocks, yes, there seems to be more choices for the SA than LA.

The SA will run 6.5x284 as well but the SA dont typically allow seating longer bullets out to the lands and still feed from the magazine. Thats why alot of people here use the LA even on SA cartridges. This allows them to feed from the magazine with bullets seated out as far as they want.
You can run all 3 of those in a SA. I personally prefer to use a LA for the reasons mentioned above.
Scooter

[jtmoose]

Is the bolt head interchangeable for a modest cost?

[scooterf79]

Yes sir, will run in the neighborhood of 30-50 bucks depending on what you need. Gunshack (one of our sponsors) usually has bolt heads and bolt parts kits in stock.
Scooter

[ninner]

I built a 7mm WSM on a small shank Model 111, Added a savage long action Magnum bolt head and it feeds great. It is a center feed though.

[jtmoose]

Why are short magnums a large shank but standard magnums are small shank? If I find a 116 in 7mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag would I be able to make it a 308 also with a new bolt head? How does the magazine work for short cartridges? Do they make a short cartridges mag for a long action like the old models?

[Russmerle]

I'm also confused why they would build WSMs in large shank but 300WM in small shank

[scooterf79]

This is purely speculation on my part, but Im guessing because its the "fatness" of the cartridge, but that makes no sense to me....
Im sure theres some engineering reason or something.
The reason I say that is because on either receiver the diameter of the receiver is the same. Either theres more meat on barrel or more meat on the receiver. Who knows to be honest lol
On converting 7 or 300 mag to 308...yep sure can.
As another posted, they make sure a SA cart is slid all the way against the back of the mag and the dont have any trouble.
Not that I know of on the short mag boxes....
Scooter.

[WinnieTheBoom]

I'm also confused why they would build WSMs in large shank but 300WM in small shank

The WSMs we're built to withstand higher pressures than the standard belted magnums. You always hear about short mags being 'more efficient' because they achieve similar velocities with less powder. That's true, but you're fitting a lot of charge into a considerably smaller space... the higher pressures are the consequence of that boost in performance.

Thus the WSM and RUM chamberings were transferred to the large shank actions, even while the standard belted magnums remained on small shank platforms.

[Russmerle]

The WSMs we're built to withstand higher pressures than the standard belted magnums. You always hear about short mags being 'more efficient' because they achieve similar velocities with less powder. That's true, but you're fitting a lot of charge into a considerably smaller space... the higher pressures are the consequence of that boost in performance.

Thus the WSM and RUM chamberings were transferred to the large shank actions, even while the standard belted magnums remained on small shank platforms.

I was wondering about the pressure curve and how the short case may make the cartridge a hotter round... I've heard the WSM burns up barrels a lot faster than the WM.