Reply With QuoteI put one bacl together a fella sold me on this forum, it is a riot to shoot. Very low recoil similar to a 30-30. I like it and mine has a Mc Gowen after market barrel. Very accurate.
Maine-iac, I'm curious about your comment that your CZ loves the Federal Fusion and Powershock ammo. Are those .310/311 bullets? If so, what American 7.62x39 ammo is using .308 bullets these days? I know the Hornady 50-round box with 123-grain SST bullets are .311. So for someone who wanted to just use factory or surplus ammo, it would seem the CZ might make more sense.
I was thinking I would handload my hunting ammo, which is why the .308 bore may be better for me, giving me the option to use any/all of the 30-30 bullets that are available.
I put one bacl together a fella sold me on this forum, it is a riot to shoot. Very low recoil similar to a 30-30. I like it and mine has a Mc Gowen after market barrel. Very accurate.
Willing to give back for what the sport has done for me!
Gonna go look at a CZ 527 at a "local" (nothing is local to me out here) gun store and see what I think. I don't think I'll be satisifed until I handle them both. Aside from a mid-range hunting rifle and inexpensive plinker, my main reason for looking at this 7.62x39 chambering is for a lightweight woods rifle that I can scope with something like a 1.5-5x20 compact and light optic. I spend a lot of time on my feet in the woods when I hunt whitetails with a rifle, and as much as I enjoy my model 11 .308 at the range, between the 22" barrel and 4-12 AO optic, it's flat wearing me out carrying it all day long. It also doesn't point very quickly in the woods, I've found.
So that may become my range/stand rifle and the 7.62x39 my walking rifle. Just not sure the Savage Scout is going to be light and handy enough to be much different from my model 11 in that dept.
Decisions, decisions. Heck, I may just fall in love with that CZ and bring it home. We'll see...
Newtosavage I have done a lot of web searching and it would seem most US ammo has gone to .310-.311 for 7.62x39 ammo. From other forums I gather Federal and Winchester always have been. Remington switched around 2004. With the popularity of the caliber growing and SAMMI standards it only made sense for the ammo companies to make and stock .310-.311 bullets. Why let all that business go to overseas companies? Ruger Switched its Mini 30 and 77 compact bolts to .310-.311 some time around 2004. Surprised Savage did not go that way. Also surprised they told you to only use American made ammo because near as I can tell they have all switched to .310-.311. Of course I am going off memory and second hand info. Only way to know for sure is buy some calipers and measure or call the ammo companies and ask. Also there is somebody out there making a flush detachable magazine for the CZ 527. The factory one does make it is a little awkward to carry but it is so darn compact and light it does not matter.
Last edited by Maine-iac; 12-28-2015 at 08:02 PM.
Whew! That was a close one!
I very nearly walked out of that gun shop with a new-to-me CZ 527 today. What a nice gun in so many ways!
Going to see if I like the Savage as much, and if not, I know what I'll be getting.
Maine-iac, I've seen information on Ruger's own website that they never switched from .308 to .311 bore for the Mini-30 and that it ever being .308 was purely rumor. I'll see if I can find that link.
They are hard to put down once you pick them up. Many a hunter have purchased the CZ intending it to be their kids gun but it never happens. They end up keeping it for themselves. Probably why CZ released a youth model this year. Not sure on the Ruger barrel diameter as well. Just read on a couple forums that they finally switched over. You also hear of improved accuracy in the newer mini 30's with the .310-.311 ammo. If I was interested in buying another Ruger 7.62x39 I would call Ruger customer service. I am more interested in whos making what in factory ammo.
Yup, hard to put down describes that CZ 527 very well. The salesperson there got out every sub-6.5 lb. hunting rifle he had, and I kept coming back to that 527, probably because it was the only one with blued steel and a real wood stock. He brought me a Ruger 77/44, a Ruger Am. Ranch .300 BO, a Marlin 336, and a Rem. Model 7 in .300 BO and .243. They were all parkerized steel and plastic stocks, both of which I really can't stand. Guess I grew up looking at Winchester Model 70's and original Model 94's and can't get over how cheap today's guns look.
I hope to get a look at that Savage 10 Scout this week. I keep waiting for the call from our Cabelas...
This is probably a dumb idea, but what would be the harm in lopping a few inches (and the front sight) off that barrel on the Scout? I doubt even then I could get it down under 7 lbs. with a scope, but I can't see it hurting accuracy at the limits of the effective hunting range for that caliber.
Now here's another crazy idea... What would it take - or is it even possible - to convert that Savage 10 Scout from 7.62x39 to 30-30, since it has the .308" barrel? Reason I ask is I am reloading already for my 30-30 Winchester, and this would allow me to use the same ammo between my lever and bolt gun. Would the bolt face/extractor work for a 30-30?
Newtosavage I would not give up on the 7.62x39. As you know I am not reloader but will be before the winter ends. I understand the want to make and shoot your own loads. One of the glories of shooting the 7.62x39 is the cheap ammo and abundance of it. Now if you go with the Savage you will have to either hope it shoots the .310-.311 factory stuff or reload. I would follow Savage CS advice but I honestly dont know what the outcome would be shooting the .311 out of a .308? Does it burn the barrel out quicker? I would anticipate poor accuracy. Risk of injury? I would consult a gunsmith or someone on this forum who knows. I do know this. I had one of the original Min 30's purchased in 1987. That must of had the .308 bore. I shot cases of Wolf, WInchester, PMC out of that thing. I believe they were .311. Never a concern that they were not a match. Accuracy was not great but I could bust clay skeet lined up at 50 yards using factory peep sights. Killed a number of deer one shot kills brush hunting. If I was to change anything on that Savage it would be either have the barrel re-cut to .311 or install a new .311 barrel. As much as I love my CZ and the walnut stock that Savage has a lot going for it as well. The ability to shoot the cheap factory ammo with accuracy would increase its value and usefulness.
Yea, it was just a random thought I had. I would love a good lightweight bolt action 30-30.
The 308/311 thing does have me a little confused and concerned. On the one hand, if all I'm going to shoot from it is cheap factory ammo, then it may make more sense to go with the CZ. But if I handload for the 7.62 (and I plan to) then there is a much better selection of bullets in the .308 diameter than the .311, and I can use bullets designed for the slower velocity of the 30-30, including the new Hornady FTX pointed rounds. That's kind of what I was thinking - that I would load 140 grain FTX bullets for the 7.62. However, if all I shoot through it are handloads in .308, then that really removes a big reason to go with the 7.62x39 caliber in the first place - cheap surplus/factory ammo - and I may as well stick with my 30-30 or .308 since I'm already loading for those.
So I guess my concern is whether shooting the .311 surplus through the Savage .308 bore will shorten the barrel life or cause any long-term issues. My plan was to shoot the steel case Hornady/Wolf/Tula for plinking, then fire some PPU and harvest that brass for my reloads in .308.
I hate to pass on the Savage, but does the CZ 527 just make more sense?
Logically thinking it would shorten barrel length compared to sorting a .308 bullet. And from my reading if you shoot the .311 bullet in the .301 bore your accuracy won't be so great. This is why I'm going to buy a cheap used short action and take the barrel off and swap it for an x-caliber barrel with the .311 bore since I'll be primarily shooting surplus
Makes sense. Funny that the test ammo listed by Savage for their 7.62x39 is the Hornady V-max 123 gr., which is a .311 bullet. It really makes me wonder why they made that scout in the .308 bore.
I have just spent a bit of time reading quotes and discussions from other forums. Some members that commented owned both the CZ and the Savage. They say they feed it all types and sizes with zero issues. I googled "Factory ammo in a Savage Scout" and found some good discussion. Sounds like barrel wear could be a minor concern but most people had satisfactory accuracy out of the Savage with cheap .311 ammo. They all seem to like the Hornady factory stuff. Its only $30 for a box of 50. Extractor wear was the other possible concern with the Savage yanking on steel cased ammo. I would handle both and decide from that.
That's my plan. I appreciate the 2nd set of eyes on this, so thanks.
If I don't get the Savage scout, then I will decide between the CZ 527 in 7.62x39 and a Ruger 77 Hawkeye Compact in that caliber (if I can find it) or .308, as I already load for the .308, and can use H4895 to load that round down to 7.62 velocities and recoil.
Goal here is to find an up-to 200-yard walking rifle for deer. I have learned that my Savage 11 with the 22" barrel and a legit. scope on it for 300 yard hunting is just more rifle than I want to carry all day in the woods. I would take my trusty M94 30-30, but with a scope (making it a legit. 200-yard gun) it's as heavy or heavier than my full sized bolt gun. Without a scope, I'm not confident with it beyond 100 yards.
Most of my shots would be inside 100, but there are a lot of places I hunt where a 200-yard shot is very possible in the woods. Open creek bottoms, big pine stands that have been burned, pipelines, etc.
So I'm kinda stuck between my Win. 94 and the full length Savage 11 at the moment.
I've also had an interest in that 7.62x39 round since blowing through a couple cases of surplus ammo in a SKS back in the mid-90's. I'm sure in a good bolt gun it's a very accurate and capable round for deer out to 200 yards.
Last edited by Newtosavage; 12-30-2015 at 01:29 PM.
Have you looked at the Savage Lightweight Hunter?Originally Posted by Newtosavage
5.5 pounds bare, should be an ounce or two over 6 pounds with a lighter weight scope, it's got a 20" barrel, and you'd reap the benefits of a (relative to 7.62x39) flat 200 yard trajectory for a .308. Or even a .243. Plus, the ammo and bullet selection is just head and shoulders better for those cartridges.
I have looked longingly at the Savage LWH. Very pricey, but I'm sure it's worth every penny. Haven't been able to put my hands on one yet though. At $1K with tax, I'm almost afraid to!
If I ever do get one, it will be in the .308 for sure. I've also thought of just hacking up my 11 to shed some weight. Cutting the barrel down from 22 to 18" and trimming the scope from the 14-oz. beast that's on there now to something in the 8-9 oz. range, and trimming a little from the stock. That would save me a pound of weight and take the rifle from 7.5 lbs. scoped (as it sits now) to 6.5, and also give me a much quicker pointing gun than the 22-inch barrel affords. That's still an option I am considering, but that gun right now shoots .5 MOA and I don't really want to mess with that just yet.
So... (drumroll please...) I took the plunge and bought the 7.62x39 Scout from Cabelas tonight. That thing drew a crowd in the Gun Library. Several folks said they had never seen one and agreed that it should be a very fun gun to shoot.
Sure enough, it's an Accustock. It also weighs in at 7.25 lbs without a scope! A beastly gun that might never get a scope. It points very well with the 20" barrel, and I'm a fan of the rear aperture sight. Someone must have taken that Accutrigger down as far as it will go too, since my scale puts it just below 2 lbs. of trigger pull.
Believe it or not, my Cabelas didn't have a SINGLE round of 7.62x39 in stock (despite having many boxes of peculiar and bizarre calibers on the shelves). They said someone came in a week ago and bought it all up. Oh well, thankfully the Academy that's half the distance from my house was very well stocked with the Russian round. I bought four types - Hornady steel case 123 gr. SST's (box of 50 for $23), Monarch 123 FMJ ($5/box!), Tula Ammo ($10/box) and some rather pricey Winchester Hog Hunter 123 grain soft point ammo.
When I got home, I got out my digital dial calipers and mic'd them all. The results surprised me quite a bit. The Hornady was as advertised at .310", as was the Tula Ammo - consistent with the Russian bores. And the Winchester Hog Hunter seemed to split the difference at .309". But the curious part was the $5/box Monarch steel case FMJ ammo. It is .308" !! I didn't expect that.
So tomorrow at the range, I'll have 4 brands and 3 diameters to test in that .308" Savage barrel. I'm going to shoot it at 50 yards with open sights and see what happens. Should be interesting. I'll post up what I find. I am hopeful that the .308 Monarch will make for a great plinking round, and the pricey Win. Hog Hunter will be an accurate hunting round. If that worked out, I'd be thrilled and I won't buy any reloading equipment for this caliber. Fingers crossed!
Awesome, congrats! Though, I notice a distinct lack of photos.
I look forward to seeing what you find with the different loads. Be sure to check out Federal's loads as well, they make a 7.62x39 Fusion and Soft Point load. Hornady is what stays in my AK's at the house, and they get around 2.5" at 100 yards, with irons or a red dot, so the Savage should do very well. And nothing wrong with sticking with irons... My .338 Win Mag Hog Hunter has been shot primarily with the irons.
And I know the LWH is a pricier rifle, I haven't gotten to hold one myself either, but if one needs a good-carrying rifle, it seems like a viable option. But you're right that you could get something similar with a little work on a standard 11 with some smart changes. I know how hard it can be to fool with an accurate rifle, though!
Congrats on the new addition! I bet it will be fun to shoot. Keep us posted on which factory ammo it prefers. Also let us know what you decide as far as a scope. A fixed 4x tends to be light. If you decide to stick to open sights I bet removal of that scout rail will shed some weight. When you get down to it as long as it points and carries(aka balance) well you will not find it tiresome to carry in the woods. I have a couple of Savage 14 American Classics that you would swear are lighter than my Ruger 77's because they point that much better but on the scales they are almost exact. Newtosavage did Cabelas pull that for you from the Cabelas over hear in Maine? I am still interested in picking one up as a bad weather brush gun. It yours likes the factory stuff like Federal Fusion and Power Shok that would make my decision easier.
Last edited by Maine-iac; 12-31-2015 at 06:55 AM.
Yea, sorry about that. I'll get them up asap. Had a 2 hr. drive to Cabelas after work, then waiting for the gun, then stopping on the way home for ammo. Didn't even get home until after 10:00. Might get to shoot it today a little bit.Awesome, congrats! Though, I notice a distinct lack of photos .
I will eventually scope it with my Weaver 4x scout (only 9 ounces) and a set of Warne QD rings (probably as heavy as the scope!) to see if I prefer that setup vs. the open sights. I'm a bit surprised and even a little disappointed with how heavy the gun is. Was hoping it would be closer to 6.5 than 7.5 lbs, but it's pushing 7.5 without a scope. That's nearly as heavy as my model 11 with a 4-12 on it... you know, the one I don't want to carry all day.
Now, the scout does have the accustock which I'm sure adds 1/4 lb. of weight, and it has the front sight which probably makes up for the difference in barrel length from 22 to 20" with the 11 vs. the scout. Considering the length and weight of the barrel on this scout, it should for all practical purposes be a heck of a shooter.
If I stick with the irons, I'll drop the scout rail and it should be fine. I'm also going to put a lighter stock on it, since I'm not using it to shoot beyond 200 yards and would like to shorten it anyway so my daughter can shoot it comfortably. Another thing is that bolt handle. It's big and fat and feels great in the hand, but I'm going to put that on my .308 and put the lighter handle from that gun on the scout. Between the scout rail, bolt handle and the lighter stock, I'm sure I can get this down to about 6 3/4 lbs. - the same weight as my Model 94 Winchester with irons. And it will balance well for carrying.
So, that begs the question, if I already have a short-range deer gun that's lightweight and low recoil (the 30-30), why the Savage scout? Well, I can't get 20 rounds of ammo for $5 for the Winchester. LOL.
Yes. They were fantastic. I found it in the gun library in Maine, and called them up. Said they would ship it to my "local" Cabelas for $25 and I could inspect it with no obligation to buy. That sounded perfect to me. 3 business days later, I got a call from the Cabelas here saying the gun was in and I could come look at it anytime I wanted. So I ran up there after work yesterday with my son and sure enough, there it sat waiting on me in the gun library. The young man working that gun library was most helpful. He and another salesman had their hands all over "my" gun too, since they had never seen one and were very curious about it.Newtosavage did Cabelas pull that for you from the Cabelas over hear in Maine?
I will report back on how it shoots each of the rounds I've bought for it (with pictures!). :D I'll run some other factory stuff through it as I get the chance, but really, I bought 2 boxes of Winchester brass case factory ammo specifically to harvest the brass so I can start reloading for the 7.62x39. As I said, this .308 bore will give me lots of good bullets to choose from, including the full range of 30-30 bullets designed to expand at slower velocities. In my mind, that's a big plus for this specific gun vs. the CZ 527. That, and the interchangeable components are why I decided to go ahead and buy the Savage scout. Otherwise, the CZ 527 is probably the gun I should have bought for a walking woods rifle. This one may end up more of a range plinker and occasional hunter, but that's fine too.
If I just don't reach for it often enough when I head to the woods, I'll probably make those mod's to my Model 11 .308 and get the weight on that gun down to under 7 lbs. Shouldn't be hard to do really, and will still be plenty useful out to 200-250 yards.
Okay, had a chance to fire a few with the irons.
First impressions:
1) kicks more than I thought, but of course, not unbearable at all. Just more than I expected for a relatively heavy gun and a small round. Reminded me a lot of my Win. 30-30 actually. Probably a little less, but not much.
2) Iron sights were WAY off to start with, even though I bore sighted it in the garage last night. After a lot of adjustment, I was disappointed to discover the barrel is overrotated by just a hair, and the front sight is leaning to the Left when looking down the barrel.That really sucks. It's not what I was hoping for. I may send it back to Savage to see if they can fix that, but if it's overrotated, I'm not sure they can. Just one more reason to scope it I guess.
3) Accuracy was pretty amazing for an iron sighted gun. I shot it off sandbags, so the gun was steady, but seeing a 2" piece of tape over my bead at 80 yards is just about the limits of my eyesight. I'm not sure I can aim more precisely than I shot with some of those loads.
4) Accuracy: From bestt to worst, the .310" Hornady SST (steel case, 50 rd. box) was incredible. First three shots were touching and under an inch. I came back and put two more in that group. Both were high but still the best group of the four.
Next-best was the expensive Winchester hog hunter ammo ($23/box of 20). It was about what I'd expect for open sights, with around a 2" group at 80 yards. I'm sure with a scope, this will be very good hunting ammo out to 150 yards.
Third best was the Academy brand "Monarch" ammo. This is the cheapest ($5/box of 20) and actually had the smallest diameter bullet at .308". I shot two groups with this and the first three-shot group was close to an inch. The second, five-shot group was about 2.5" but still plenty good enough for a plinking round, and at least at that distance, close enough to the Hornady that I doubt I'd have to re-zero the rifle.
Worst of the bunch was the Tula ammo, but even it wasn't awful. Maybe 3" at 80 yards, half of which was probably my aiming error alone. Biggest issue with it and the Monarch was getting the bolt to eject the last round. In each case, the last round came out of the chamber but didn't get ejected. It would just sit on top of the magazine.
Going to throw the scout scope on it soon and take it to the range to see how it does out to 200 yards.
It has a very solid feel to it and balances and points very well. I can see this being a good brush gun for quick shots inside 100 yards. But I'm going to explore the accuracy of it with those Hornady SST's a little more, and see what I can wring out of it. I have a feeling I can get one-hole 100-yard groups with it if I have it set up correctly with a conventional scope. That would sure make for an inexpensive range gun for banging steel out to 300 yards.
As for the photos guys (I'm new here) do you have to buy a membership to be able to add photos?
The site doesn't have the ability to upload photos, you'll need to add them to a photobucket, Flickr, Picasa, etc. account and then link to your photos in the text body.
The following link gives some clarity to the process:
http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...eman-can-do-it!
Originally Posted by keeki
Guess it doesn't really matter. If ya cant afford $15, you won't be buying much anyways
Sorry about the photos guys. I'll figure something out.
For now, let me just say I love it when a plan comes together. :D
So the idea in the back of my mind when I first saw this Savage Scout was that between it and my current Model 11 in .308, I would have enough parts to make the two rifles I really wanted - a 300+ yard range/long distance hunting gun, and 2) a lightweight, light recoiling walking woods rifle, possibly in a scout formation with an effective range on deer to 200 yards.
I think I'm going to get both out of this deal. Here's how...
1st. Swap stocks. My model 11 was the scoped package with the lightweight plastic stock and Axis magazine. I knew that stock would have to be much lighter than the Accustock that came with the scout. And it was. A full pound lighter! So the first thing I did when I got home today was swap out the stocks and the bottom magazine cover (metal on the Scout Accustock magazine, plastic on the 11 magazine). This dropped my Scout from 7 1/4 lbs. to just over 6 1/4 lbs. alone. Next was swapping the bolt handle. The scout, for some odd reason, came with an oversized bolt handle that was just unneeded weight on a hunting rifle, but would be useful on my long-range .308, so those got swapped. There goes another 2 oz. on the scout, and now we're down to 6 lbs. 2 oz. Finally, I discovered I could actually remove the front sight (so I did) and then the rear sight. There goes three ounces. So now I'm down below 6 lbs.! Since my Weaver 4x Scout is one of the lightest scopes made at just 9 ounces, I decided to leave the scout rail on the rifle and mount that Weaver scout with Aluminum rings and see how it did at the range. Final rifle configuration with stock 20" barrel is 6 3/4 lbs. - a whole pound lighter than my .308 and with a way to grasp it in the middle which should prove useful when carrying through the woods and brush. And it points like a dream.
So, how does it shoot? Fantastic.
With the 4x Scout scope mounted, and from a rest, I managed 2" 5-shot groups with both the TulAmmo and Monarch surplus ammo at 100 yards, and just 1" with the Hornady and Winchester. At 200 yards, the Hornady and Winchester really shined, with both falling into the same sub-2" group (7 shots) at that distance. I was blown away as shot after shot kept dropping into that group. It didn't matter if I was shooting the Winchester Hog hunter soft points or the Hornady steel case SST's. They grouped superbly.
I left the range with a 150-yard zero, with my rounds impacting 2.5" high at 100 yards and 2.5" low at 200 - a very useful arrangement. And being able to use those mid-priced Hornady steel case SST's for practice (or pigs) and the Winchester soft points for deer hunting is really more than I could ever ask for.
Incidentally, in case anyone is keeping track, those two bullets are the farthest apart in diameter, with the SST's at .310" and the Winchester at .308" by my calipers. Both the surplus brands were in-between at .309, but the gun didn't seem to care. I never would have thought that the Hornady and Winchester would drop in the same sub-MOA group at 200 yards but they sure did.
So now I have a easy to carry, quick pointing 7.62x39 bolt action that shoots sub-MOA (even with budget ammo) and has a 20" barrel and an overall length of 40".
Only negative I found at all today was the extractor not wanting to play well with the steel cased ammo. Esp. the last round. Might be a magazine issue, or it might need a new extractor, but I'll get to the bottom of it soon. Considering the way this gun points, carries and shoots, it will be worth putting some time into to fine-tune some of the function issues.
Now, on the project #2 which is inletting that Accustock to accept my model 11 .308 action. That's on tap for tomorrow.
I've read this thread and I wish that I would have chimed in earlier. I could have eased your mind a bit about bore size compared to bullet diameter. I have shot .311 thru a 308 bore and 308 thru a .311 bore with no adverse effects. Bullets in 308 are still very accurate out of a 311 barrel. I would say they are pretty close to interchangeable although as you said a lot more available in 308.
Also, as far as handloading for the 7.62x39, in my opinion that is the way to go as far as performance ammo. Take a look at this article by Paco Kelly:
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/762x39.htm
I'm glad you found a rifle combination that works for you, especially in 7.62x39! That's one of my favorite cartridges!
BW
Thanks Ol BW. Apparently the are interchangeable if both the Hornady and Winchesters will shoot into the same sub-MOA group at 200 yards!
I will be handloading once I get a good supply of brass going. Looking forward to the accuracy I can achieve with hand loads!
So, the transformation of both my Savage rifles is now complete!
The 7.62x39 Scout got the "hunter" accutrigger, lightweight stock, lightweight bolt handle and new extractor from the Model 11. Finished weight with scope and sling is an even 7 lbs.
The Model 11 got the "target" accutrigger (adjustable down to 1 lb.), the Accustock and bottom metal, the heavy bolt handle, and for now, the old extractor from the Scout. Finished weight with scope and sling is 9 lbs.
I have to say, the way my 7.62x39 scout is set up now is probably how they should have built it in the first place. Very light and quick pointing. A real pleasure to carry, even with the 4x scope on it. I'm not sure what they were thinking by putting a 2.5 lb. Accustock and real bottom metal (even a metal magazine bottom) on that gun. It was 7 1/4 lbs. without a scope when I picked it up from Cabelas! That's not really scout-like IMO.
Now off to the range again for one last check on both rifles, then to the woods tomorrow.
I promise I'll get photos up eventually.
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