Problems with my new 10fp

[jimmy456]

Hello there,

Thought I'd run this by you more experienced folks.

I got my new 10fp and attached my EGW base and added the Burris XTR 1" Low rings. I attached my Simmons Aetec 2.8-10-44mm scope and bore sighted it at my house with a laser bore sighter. We took it to the range and could not get it to group at all. We checked to make sure that the barrel was free floated and that the screws were all tight. We tried switching which ring was in the front. We made sure that the base was tight to the gun. We even tried an older Bushnell 9-40 scope and still have not had much luck. We were able to get a small group together but it was very low and not where we were aiming at all. The problem seems to be that we keep running out of adjustment upward. We have tried a lot of differently things. I am very new to guns in general, but the person I am working with has been working with guns for 20+ years and is pretty competent. He is going to drop by an extra pair of rings he has later this week and I was going to attach them and see what we can do at the range after that. Can you guys think of anything we haven't tried?

[Armed in Utah]

Scope & rings/bases would be get my first attention...

Look at the barrel & make sure it is not touching the barrel.....

do the dollar bill test.......

Are you burning factory or handloads.......??

[jimmy456]

Make sure what is not touching the barrel? The screws?

What is the dollar bill test???

Factory: Currently Federal 55gr. And tried 1 or 2 unknown manufacturer soft point also 55gr. Grouping was relatively the same with both ammo. Again not anywhere near where we were aiming.

[ellobo]

Run a dollar bill under the barrel and tang. Both should not be touching anything. If they are remove the action and barrel and scrape some material off the barrel channel until it passes the "dolar bill" test.

El Lobo

[jimmy456]

OK, I will try this. Is it likely that it came from the factory like this? Because I really have not changed anything. Thanks for your help.

[jimmy456]

So I should run the dollar bill in between the stock and the barrel at the end of the stock correct?

[rjtfroggy]

Start the dollar bill at the end of the forearm and slide it back to the barrel nut, it should slide freely all the way back. If not put a light pencil mark where it snagged and then sand this area a little until it doesn't get caught anymore. Personally I double the bill up(use 2) when I run this test, but only 1 at the tang.
Also do not mix up the ring halves before you install them, some are made as matching sets, and the ring screws need to be torqued to 18-20 in/lbs.. Also be a Little leery of your simmons scope, they are not what they once were.

[deadeye]

I am reading two things here:

could not get it to group at all

and

we keep running out of adjustment upward

Also - you said you tried two different scopes?

If 2 different scopes give you the same results, it probably is not the scope - other than running them at max adjustment.

If you are working on the end of the scope adjustment - you will have troubles with most scopes so I would be looking at the base/ring setup. I will use nothing but Burris Signature Rings as they allow for correction when a scope runs out by using the offset inserts.

As for group size - try different bullet weights and also check the crown.

[jimmy456]

Ok I will try the dollar bill test today. And my buddy will be dropping by a second set of rings for me to try. I will try some different ammo if I can get my hands on some. From what you guys are saying though I believe the the rifle might not pass the dollar bill test and that could be the problem. The barrel not being free floated the whole way could affect the shot this much I assume? Thanks again for all of your helpful suggestions.

One thing I wanted to add that might be suspect. I ordered Burris XTR Tactical Rings Low. I have a 44mm scope, could this be an issue? I mean it fits and the scope is not touching the barrel.

[davemuzz]

If you have any part of the barrel touching any part of the stock.....it can have a huge (yes.....HUGE) effect on the accuracy and the groups that your gun is getting.

Actually, when I get a new rifle, I check for clearance and if it even "hints" at being too close, I take the action\barrel out and sand it so the hint is a thing of the past!!

I've free floated the front stock's of the NEF Handi rifles on a 22 magnum for better groups....and yes, it has made a difference. I "float" with metal (not rubber because rubber will change with temperature changes) the forend's of my T\C Encore ProHunter stocks.

Here's a pic of the ProHunter "float":

[img width=600 height=450]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/davemuzz/DSC00073.jpg[/img]

[Dan Fletcher]

Check your Aetec scope for parallax. I have a 2.8-10x44 Aetec with more than 2 inches of parallax at 100 yards.

[jimmy456]

Check your Aetec scope for parallax. I have a 2.8-10x44 Aetec with more than 2 inches of parallax at 100 yards.

I don't quite know what these means. I don't have a parallax adjustment on my scope, as far as I can tell.

[DanSavage]

Check the scope for cant when mounting a scope. This makes a huge difference when sighting in. To make sure your vertical crosshair is indeed vertical to the action can be done by using a level on top of elevation knob, and a level on a flat suface of the reciever. I personally use two 36''rods, arrows, whatever is straight& won't flex at all and eyeball it level then torq the ring screws evenly. Double check after your done, it might take a few tries before your satisfied . Also eperiment with the way you torq the action srews.

[lucy123]

I have Simmons Atec that is giving me the same problem on my model 16.

[jimmy456]

The only thing is, I also used a old Bushnell 3-9x40mm and I ran out of adjustment upward as well. I am waiting on some other rings to attempt that. Going to check the dollar bill thing tonight.

[jimmy456]

Until I get some paper money, anyone have any other ideas?

[davemuzz]

Until I get some paper money, anyone have any other ideas?

It doesn't have to be money. You can use news paper, or tear an envelope in half or whatever.

Me.....I don't use anything under $100 dollar bills on my Stevens 200's. Hey, why check a $200 gun with anything less?

Dave

[jimmy456]

So I should be able to bring it from the foreend of the stock to about where the trigger guard is without the paper getting stuck?

[McKinneyMike]

So I should be able to bring it from the foreend of the stock to about where the trigger guard is without the paper getting stuck?

Yes. It should not catch anywhere from the forend to the barrel nut.

[snipecatcher]

By grouping, do you mean group size, as in 5 shots in a 2 inch circle, or where the shots are located in relation to the crosshairs? If all of your shots are hitting high or low off the target, you probably have the same problem I had. I couldn't get my shots on paper until I had the scope maxed out, so I put a 20 MOA base on the rifle, and now it's fine. Savage screwed up when they made my receiver. Yours is probably the same. I would send it back if this is the case. I didn't send mine in, but if I were to do it over again, I would, and I still may do it some day.
-Dan

[jimmy456]

So the gun passes the dollar bill test.

And by grouping I mean the shots seem to group together OK, but in relation to the Crosshairs, it is way off.

My buddy couldn't find his set of rings he's going to look again, but until then is there anything else it could be or anything else I can try?

[jimmy456]

By grouping, do you mean group size, as in 5 shots in a 2 inch circle, or where the shots are located in relation to the crosshairs? If all of your shots are hitting high or low off the target, you probably have the same problem I had. I couldn't get my shots on paper until I had the scope maxed out, so I put a 20 MOA base on the rifle, and now it's fine. Savage screwed up when they made my receiver. Yours is probably the same. I would send it back if this is the case. I didn't send mine in, but if I were to do it over again, I would, and I still may do it some day.
-Dan

Is there anything I would notice with my eye to be able to know if this is the problem or not?

[rjtfroggy]

Can you post a picture of your set up? maybe someone will spot something.

[jimmy456]

[img width=600 height=450]http://imgur.com/ByI6P.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=450]http://imgur.com/iyaIp.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=450]http://imgur.com/fa7N4.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=450]http://imgur.com/dqabY.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=450]http://imgur.com/48YZI.jpg[/img]

I know the rings are on backwards, we tried it as a last ditch effort. Hopefully these image links work. =) Thanks so much for your help guys I really appreciate it. And of course if you want me to take pictures from a different angle or of something specific, let me know and I will. Sorry for the crappy pictures I don't own a DSLR or anything.

[ellobo]

Call Savage and explain your problem and what you have done to aleviate said problem. They may have some suggestions and if not they should have you return it postpaid with a ticket they will send you. You are right, a new rifle should not have this kind of problem.

El Lobo