Reply With QuoteHornady modified case and oal gage, only way I know to be sure.
I'd like to know what method some of you reloaders use to know how far your bullets are from the lands. Does it take some special device or what?
"Do you trust the government?" If the answer is 'Yes,' you can accurately surmise they don't understand the original intent of the 2nd Amendment.
Hornady modified case and oal gage, only way I know to be sure.
Click on the left side here and read the old post titled (oal worries).
One way is to take a case & cut a slit in the neck, seat a bullet long, put lube on bullet, chamber, extract & measure. May have to play with neck tension to get it just right.
Here's a video from Gunwerks on a couple different methods.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OZ8...6212B&index=14
To me , the easiest way and the cheapest way is the method I use. You don't need to destroy a case by cutting slits in it. Just take a fired case and run it into your full length sizing die 1/32 to 1/16 inch. Just far enough to have tension on the bullet when it is slid in and out. Slowly push the case and bullet into the chamber with your finger as far as you can, then slowly close the bolt on it the rest of the way. Then slowly open the bolt and slowly remove the case and bullet, catching it with your finger so it doesn't drag on the action or fly out. You now have your COAL to the lands with that bullet. You can do this over several times to be confident this method works and is consistent.
This has always worked so well for me I have never seen the need to purchase the Stoney Point Tools. All done with stuff we all already have. :-)
Well this is the method i use and so do lots of others. But there is a bit more involved than how it was just described.
By doing it that way the bullet is actually jammed into the lands and wouldnt be the proper legnth as for just touching the lands.
This is how I do it. You also need a comparator for your calipers to read from Ogive is you want to be super accurate.Originally Posted by Ranger3
[QUOTE=fgw_in_fla;256183]We told you so...[/QUOTE]
If you go too fast and jam the bullet in the lands, it won't come out with the case. With this method it just touches the lands. Once you get your COAL with that bullet, you can back off or go into the lands as you please. Been doing it successfully for years.
Yep, Berger VD's will slide way up in there
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Any bullet I do it with will stop at the lands, including VLD's. If done properly, they will not jam. I have a 30/06, that when new, had very abrupt and sharp lands. It tended to grab the pill and stay in the throat when the case was removed, requiring me to tap it out with a rod. But I was able to adjust the tension on the case neck enough to make it work, and with a little throat erosion it doesn't do that anymore.
I think the posters claiming the bullet wil jam to far in the lands with this method are using a slightly different method? In fact, I have compaired the method described with my BIL's Lock & Load tool and come out with exactly the same results.
I like good tools and I like using them. It's just in this case I find the tool to be unnecessary. Just me just just sayin :-).
The OP asked for the "easiest" and I have thrown my suggestion in the ring! Perhaps those who are absolutely sold that Lock & Load, or Stoney point are "to die for" and the easiest, should work a little harder to sell us on it? JMHO :-)
I use a fired case too, I just roll the neck on the counter to add a little tension. Then measure it about 10 times, works well for me. :)
I think its a good idea to get a measuring tool as to get the understanding of it. Ive had mine for 20 years and I think Ive used to 3 times...Its isn't the easiest way.
If you can , borrow one as to not have to buy one. Once you understand the logic, you,ll see how easy it is to devise your own method as others have stated.
Neck tension on the case being used is key. If the neck tension is too tight, the pressure it takes to press the bullet into the case as your closing the bolt may be enuff to lodge the bullet into the rifling and get stuck in the barrel as you open the bolt. the bullet has to fit snug into the case so that when you close the bolt and press the bullet into the case, there isn't too much resistance so that the bullet will in fact press easily into the case with out coming out upon opening of bolt.
Im with conch and newshooter.....
Its 100% accurate providing your using the projectile you plan on shooting.
Life is tuff.....its even tuffer when your stupid
{John Wayne}
^ Yep! It's all about the feel ! ^ :-)
Not a fan of the sharpie method. Getting the feel for it is much less messy.
I use a sized case with a slit or two cut into the neck with a dremel cut off disk. I also took the extractor and ejector out of the bolt, so there was no resistance or tugging on the case anywhere. Close bolt, open bolt and pull back, then used a cleaning rod from the muzzle end to tap the bullet back out of the lands, catching it as it comes back out of the chamber. This was the only way to ensure the ejector/extractor wouldn't get me a false reading. Tedious, but works great.
Are you saying the case comes out but the bullet stays in the lands until you tap it out with the rod? What reading are you getting from that?
I think he meant that he taps on the bullet and the whole gauge comes out.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Eddie, New and Conch do what I do. And, yes, I have the other fancy tools, too, but I just go back to this. I suspect some of mine may be into the lands, but it doesn't bother me if they are, as long as I end up with loads that shoot 1/2 MOA or better. Most get closer to .333 or .25, and I really have NO idea how far off the lands I am, or how deep into them I am. At end of the day, I don't care. As the throat erodes, I chase it. Not sure what more I can do.
However, I am NOT a competitive shooter, so I am open to suggestions or any advice from others who know better.
"uSd", I get what you are saying now. I just never wanted to push on the pill with a rod, thinking it may push further into the case. But in all methods, it is a matter of feel.
^foxx^ pretty much summed up the way I feel about it.
The method that I appreciate the least, one touted by some smiths, perhaps so they can see themselves on YouTube, is where you push the rod down the barrel to the closed bolt face, mark the rod at the end of the barrel, then use some method to insert a case with the pill touching the lands, reinsert the rod until it touches the bullet tip, mark the rod again, and try to get an accurate measurement between the two marks in thousandths. This seems to me to have the potential to be the least accurate.
Hopefully the OP has gained enough ideas from this thread to make the choice that works best for him. Thanks...Jim :-)
Edit: I can't resist one more tid bit. If you paint the bullet with a Sharpie (ink) you can see exactly where the bullet touches the lands. If you want to jam it into the lands, you can do so by slamming the bolt closed. But you will have to push the bullet out with a rod because it won't come out with the case. I have never found a reason to do this.
Last edited by FW Conch; 11-08-2015 at 09:08 AM.
I use a match to smoke the bullet simply because sharpies didnt exist 60 years ago.
Yes it is more time consuming than developing a (feel) for it. But it also tells you
exactly when your just touching the rifleing.
I'm waiting for a 6.5 Creed barrel. When I get the new rig together I'm definitely going to try this. I just hope it ain't too finicky. Thanks
"Do you trust the government?" If the answer is 'Yes,' you can accurately surmise they don't understand the original intent of the 2nd Amendment.
Also, its my belief that every gun is different, so i start at or just off what i THINK is the lands, then move into and off the lands, keeping track of the oal as i go. I dont worry about where the lands are as much as what the oal is. Once i find the iptimum load, thats where i stay till i lose accuracy. Then i assume, if high round count, the throat is eroding and try seating them longer.
For me, the easiest way to do all this is to use a hand held press from Lee at the range. I seat them long at the loading bench and then seat them deeper at the shooting bench till i find the sweet spot. The trick is meauring the oal accurately and keeping records as i go. Its all a matter of trial and error.
This.
The reason I do it that way is it seems like every time I have the ejector and extractor in and use them to pull the 'gauge' back out, it pulls the case off the bullet a tiny bit each time and my readings are always close, but never the same. Doing it the way I do, they're more consistent. The case freely falls in and out of the chamber, the bullet is the only thing that could possibly get 'stuck' a little (in the rifling), so tapping the bullet back with a rod pushes everything back, giving me a true reading.
Finally, to the OP:
When we read someone's report that they seat their bullets .05 off the lands (or .06, .015, whatever), they are not saying they do so because they are following some principal that says it is best to do so. It simply means they have determined, thru testing, that THAT particular rifle/cartridge combination LIKES it there. It is true that most cartridges of a particular type tend to prefer to be seated either close to or far from the lands, (depending on the type) but that info is used to help determine a starting point for your own testing. THat's why I say I say don't worry about it. Get a general idea of where your lands are so you can be sure you aren't jamming the bullet into the lands, and then experiment with it. Keep track of how long your cartridges are, try various lengths and settle on the one that works best for you. At the end of the day, it does not matter where the lands are, but that you can duplicate a specific load and coal that works in your rifle.
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