Reply With QuoteAre you cleaning it after every shotting session? Cold bore is often confused with clean bore. Try taking it out again without cleaning it between sessions and see if you get more predictable results.
I have a factory 110 BA. The rifle is very accurate, shot a 1" group at 500 yards.
I have just started target shooting out to longer distance with it, 1121 yards to be exact.
My problem is this gun is throwing the first shot. My target is a AR 500 steel silhouette in front of a 3x5 ish foot cardboard box.
Tonight was the 3rd time I shot this distance and this has happened every time. Yesterday my round hit bout 1.5 MOA up/left (into the wind) next round with same elev/wind dialed the round hit exactly where I expected it to be elevation wise and about 1 MOA right (due to wind) thought maybe it was a bad round so I fired 2 back to back and they hit where expected about 6 inch apart.
Today I confirmed it was doing this again. Fired the cold bore shot and immediately followed up with a second shot. Cold bore completely missed the cardboard. Other shot hit 3 inches from center of target.
This is always the first shot. The rest go where there supposed to. Anyone else experience this and have any idea what it may be?
Tore the gun down to pieces and every screw was still tight. Scope is a Sightron SIII.
My thought is either the scope internals are binding then releasing on first recoil or the barrel is crap for first round. (A buddy had a 308 that would throw the first round 3/4 MOA off then shoot fine afterwords)
Thoughts?
This gun is intended for long range hunting so first round hit is important
Are you cleaning it after every shotting session? Cold bore is often confused with clean bore. Try taking it out again without cleaning it between sessions and see if you get more predictable results.
Apologies if I came off wrong. I fell victim to the same situation. For precise distance shooting, fouling is your friend (to a certain degree)
Not cleaning between. I did bore snake the barrel before I fired the 2 shots yesterday (after firing three initial shots). The 2 shots today were after the bore snake and and 2 shots from yesterday... I thought maybe it was dirty and causing fliers. Not the case
I'm guessing the barrel is the issue only because I've seen this before. But it shoots really well after the initial shot.
Do you reload?
Yes
Check your lot numbers on your components. Did you happen to crack open a new can of powder recently?
Negative, the other rounds are consistent except the first one
My shooting Buddy has a 110BA and it does the opposite on a regular basis.....first shot dead on......second shot will usually be 1.5-2 inches left and third shot will cut the first one.....regardless of shooter, it does the same if I shoot it or someone else does.....rifle is a single shot as C.O.A.L. is way beyond mag. length now.....we tried the cleaning and leaving it dirty, his shoots better dirty....he is considering getting a better barrel.....
Thanks for the help guys. I'd think the scope would be an issue to if it didn't hold the other shots and adjustments after the first shot but like I said that's just not the case. I had several kills with the rifle this year during summer crop damage at 600 + yards, furthest at 1000. But the shots hit high or missed first round. I assumed my range was off. The 1000 yd one hit dead on but I shot a target prior to attempting that shot. Thus good 2nd round hit....
Any barrel suggestions? Thinking Shilen
Can't go wrong with shilen. I hear Apache Jim's xcaliber barrels are pretty amazing, too. Plus he's great to work with. Jim at NSS is awesome too but I don't think he carries 338LM...
Spoke with Jim. Said Shilen will not make 338 LM barrel for savage. He spoke with Shilen this morning. They don't believe savage actions are built strong enough for the 338 LM. Said they build for 1.350" minimum and savage is 1.30... They won't risk liability
Interesting. Maybe McGowen?
I was having a similar issue but my groups were opening up as the barrel got hotter. It sucks that Shilen won't make barrels for the .338, but pretty much every other barrel maker will. As for replacement barrels, I just went through this myself - you have Bartlein, Douglas, Hart, Lilja, etc. All of their lead times are more or less the same, so it's just a matter of personal preference. I ended up ordering a Stainless Super Match 30" from Pac-Nor, but there are really plenty of good options.
[I]"In the end, run what 'ya brung because it's better than nothing and don't give two ****s what some interwebs chat board guy says about your rig."[/I]
Thanks for the help everyone. I spoke with my local smith who happens to specialize in competition and long rang rifles. He will make a barrel for me (bartlein/Shilen etc) if that's what it comes down to. I had planned on replacing the base anyway so I'm starting there. Ken Farrel Base will be here this week. I have Ken Farrel rings and a Sightron SIII Tactical 6-24 X 24 that will stay the same.
This base will allow me to pull my scope off my 260 and install on my lapua. This is also a Sightron SIII. The savage rail would not allow me to do this. I will know then if it is the barrel.
I will update this thread as to what I find. I also gave the barrel a good cleaning which it really needed so I'm hoping for an improvement
If this one heated up and shifted id be set but this rifle is used mainly for hunting so the only shot I truly need to be accurate is the first.
I need your opinions:
I switched the rail to ken farrel, switched the rings to leupold Mark 4, scope was switched out to another Sightron SIII.
Barrel was cleaned and shot about 10 times to resight the gun in shoot a 3 shot group at 300 yards of about 2".
Tonight I shot 1121 yards again and had the following:
First shot hit low 13" left 13" on the backstop of the target. (about 5" off ground). Second shot hit dirt about 5 feet in front of target.
I really want to know what the people with custom barrels are getting for accuracy at similar distances (1000+ yards). I have a 260 with a criterion barrel that I've shot numerous pop cans and what not at these distances.
Is this round capable of this kind of accuracy or am I chasing my tail. I will get a custom barrel but would like some feedback first.
Note: looking for info on custom barrels chambered in 338 LM/Edge.. Although I'm still sticking with lapua. The edge is close enough to consider accuracy in the barrels as well
I just went through this, stick with the Lapua. The difference in performance alone is not worth the switch, and the cost of switching to the Edge is going to be much higher than sticking with the Lapua. Factor in cost of dies, price and availability of .300 RUM brass... It's not even a question of what makes more sense. The Edge makes a lot of sense in that you can build it on a standard magnum action, the poor man's Lapua if you will, but performance alone doesn't make it worth it.Originally Posted by hafejd30
Get a nice barrel and call it a day. That Lilja in the classifieds would be pretty nice, although I'm not sure how keen I would be paying that much for a used barrel. You can get a brand new one for about $100 more, although you'd have to factor in the wait time. Douglas, Hart, Brux, Pac-Nor etc. etc. All good options and all will shoot the Lapua extremely well to those distances. I went with Pac-Nor and have been very happy, wait time for me was about 6 weeks, but YMMV. Just put some calls into different places and see what option is going to fit you best.
Your issue definitely sounds barrel-related though, so once you get that switched out you should be good to go. I'd also recommend having your action trued up if you're wanting to really make it a tack-driver, but it's going to be dependent on how much time & money you're willing to invest to have a nice shooting rig.
[I]"In the end, run what 'ya brung because it's better than nothing and don't give two ****s what some interwebs chat board guy says about your rig."[/I]
Well we all know about what is said about opinions. Realize im not attempting to make any enemys here
by my personal opinion and comments. Although i own and like very much some Savage rifles, i dont own
any large caliber ones. But by that im not saying nobody else should either. Ive only ever watched one Savage
338 Lapua being shot at long distance. That was by a friend who came here to try his gun at various distances
before taking it on a western hunt. From what i saw, i personaly wouldnt have been taking that gun anywhere
let alone a western hunt. The first shot being 13" low and 13" left wouldnt bother me one bit, but the second shot would.
And every shot thereafter would also. A hunting gun need not be a so called tack driver. But it does need to be consistant
in where it will send the bullets. A close miss needs to be a hit on the follow up shot, and not another miss someplace else.
Id reccomend trying the gun at some closer distances of say 800 or so. Also have another shooter shoot the gun.
Again im not trying to insult anybody, but the distance being talked about here is easily talked about but not easy to hit things at.
And a 338 Lapua wont change that.
Yobuck, this rifle has been shot at various closer distances quite a bit. But it took longer distance to really tell me this problem was bigger than I thought. Used this rifle for this summers crop damage deer hunting and got 3 kills over 600 yards with the furthest at 1000. Some shots were noticeably high on the first rounds but I thought my range was off. It wasn't until trying this longer shot that I realized I had issues with consistency. All prior target shooting I did started off at closer distance and moved out during the session. Not a big deal when the first round hits off at 300 yards because the target was generally big enough to still get hit. After that the rounds remained consistent. Believe me Its not shooter error on this. Im the guy people have shoot there rifles to check consistency.
Winnie, I wasn't suggesting the edge. I wil be sticking with the Lapua. I was asking about barrels chambered in either the lapua or edge as a comparison for custom barrels vs factory barrels accuracy. Only reason I said edge is because I figured more people will have custom barrels in that caliber than lapua. Just fishing for more opinions on a brand than anything
Thank you both for the advice
You're going to get replies all over the place. Most of the big barrel manufacturers are hard to go wrong with. LRH and SH will both say Lilja, Hart, Douglas, Pac-Nor, Bartlein, and Shilen. There are definitely some other good ones out there, but it's a pretty sure thing that you're going to have a laser if you go with one of those brands.
It really comes down to how much you're wanting to spend and how long you're willing to wait. Douglas is around 3-4 weeks at the moment, Pac-Nor is around 6, McGowen around 10, Hart is around 11 months.
[I]"In the end, run what 'ya brung because it's better than nothing and don't give two ****s what some interwebs chat board guy says about your rig."[/I]
Did some testing at 446 yards today.
Shot 1/2- 3.75 MOA- aim point right orange circle. Shots about 10 Sec apart
Shot 3/4- 5 MOA corrected from hits 1/2 at left orange circle. Shot about 3-5 min after 1/2 shots
Shot 5/6/7 3.75 MOA as originally adjusted. After dialing back to zero. At right circle
Shot 8 - 5 MOA after dialing past zero half a turn and back (testing scope repeatability) aimed at left circle
Shot 9- 3.75 MOA after dialing back to zero from shot 8.
Wind about 3-5 mph from 3 o'clock
Couple more pics with tape measure. First pic looks like left group is further off from where it was
Shots 1/2/5/6/7 are all same adjustment on scope and same aim point
Only shots that hit off are 1/2 the others hit where I expected.
Last edited by hafejd30; 11-03-2015 at 06:31 PM.
I have the 110BA also. We shot today and my shots were all over the paper to start with. Started at 865 yds and then moved too 200 yds. and checked zero. Should have been putting one bullet in previous hole at this range but it didnt happen. We checked it at 400 and 600 yds and shot a 5" group at 600 yds. Last time we shot accuracy was much better than today.
I feel your pain. This gun shoots very well. This group at 446-3 shots 5/6/7, not sure what it measured. This gun also shot a .92" group at 500. It actually shoots better groups at 500 it seems then 300.
I switched the base, rings, scope.... I don't have another high end scope to test besides my sightrons. But the fact that I cranked the scope up and down several times and it was consistent makes me think the scopes are good. If one is broke they both are lol.
My barrel will Proly be a 30" Shilen select match that will be machined nutless to the action. If that isn't it then I'll have 2 good 338 LM barrels I guess. I just don't know where to turn next besides that. It's not the loads cause they obviously shoot great yet. Barrel was cleaned and refouled. Everything north of the action is replaced... ��
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