team, my 7mm rm brass has been shot about 5 or 6 times (Winchester brass) and I'm starting to have jams loading and unloading so I will full resize the shells but I wonder if this a good time to anneal. also if anyone can point me out to a good "online how to" that will be great.
thanks!
Here is some info on annealing. I anneal my 338LM brass about every 3 firings and sounds like you brass is starting to grow in length, so yes, this would be a good time to anneal and full length resize and push those shoulders back about .002
http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
I anneal about the same.
I f/l size w/o the expander each loading then neck with a redding S die. Find accuracy was more consistent f/l sizing each time. Which seems to conflict with internet wisdom.
6 firings my brass is about how I like but primer pockets on the other hand...
I anneal every second firing and FL size every time...my FL die is set up to just touch the shoulder...i like a snug fit on my brass.
Theres a lot of different ways to anneal but get yourself a bottle of tempilac 750 so you know your not over or under annealing.
this is a pretty good jig/"machine" that is affordable and inexpensive. In some respects, it might be over priced for what it is, but then again, it works as advertised and SIMPLE.
I like it, anyhow. http://www.cartridgeanneal.com/anneal-rite-video.html
Since getting it about a year or two ago, I anneal every couple firings.
I anneal and FL after every firing.
I copied a setup from another fellow I found online. It's cheap, I think less than $75. It also runs as fast as the automatics.
Lee lead melter, Potassium Nitrate (stump remover), and some scrap metal I had laying around.
"Muzzle velocity is a depreciating asset, not unlike a new car, but BC, like diamonds, is forever."-German A. Salazar
thanks everyone for their info.
GearGrinder, you care to elaborate?
Did you watch the video?Originally Posted by Nandy
Click where is says Salt Bath Annealing
"Muzzle velocity is a depreciating asset, not unlike a new car, but BC, like diamonds, is forever."-German A. Salazar
I saw the video but outside of a couple of captions there is not much info.
interesting.
I anneal every time. Here's why. I believe that consistency is the corner stone of precision (accuracy) and I believe that neck tension is an important factor and that neck tension will not be the same with work hardened brass compared with annealed brass. Plus, I track too many factors already when it comes to brass. I shoot 2 rifles chambered in .223 and I keep their brass separate. Having additional categories for "not fired", "fired once", "fired twice", "fired three times", etc. would make my Zip Lock bag cost too high. Annealing every time is much easier for me than counting times-fired, especially with my home-made machine.
Here's a picture of the one I built. It's not very expensive, it was fun to build, it works great and is better than many of the factory versions plus costs a LOT less. It even has a case counter.
_DSC3404
Mozella
Sir, you are a craftsman. Well done.
My opinion and that of many bench rest shooters is it is more work than necessary to shoot good. Most brass will give you between 8-10 firings with out problems(unless loaded over max) and even Lapua at $.88-$1.00 a case is only averaging around $.09 a shot. How many firings do you want? and are you willing to take the chance of a brass problem when in competition or hunting the buck of a life time. NOT ME.
100 cases last a full season plus, so when the next season comes around NEW brass start over.
Yesterday out of curiosity I asked 8 or 9 guys who are all top br shooters and they all said to a man " not me, it is just not worth the time or effort." Buy new brass for each new season and each one of theses guys shoot every weekend at a match some where between Maine and North Carolina and have been for quite some time. Personally I will go with their advice.
FROGGY
See profile for fire arms
Do it today there maybe no tomorrow
thats funny because ive heard the exact opposite of what you heard from the BR and F-class guys here...I shot a 600yd F-class with bob hoppie and bob lache yesterday...both anneal every time...bob hoppie shot a 595(through a dasher with 4k rounds through it with 1 set back)not sure on Xs...bob lache shot a 599 and I believe 45X out a 6.5 284 that he just got rebarreled and was shooting 2 different loads...1 load jammed and one .020 off the lands.
and I'm not arguing just stating what ive heard from the top guys here...I also know that if I don't anneal after about 3-4 firing I can feel the difference when I'm seating and my seating is inconsistent.
LongRange as I stated short range 100 - 300 yards, almost all shooting 6ppc, 6mmbr or 30br and none shooting over max load. The majority fl size after shooting and load by volume, some during the match others preload. Remember this isn't long range group type of shooting, it is one shot on each target at given range, 5 targets on a page per relay with unlimited sighters.
Almost everyone is using Lapua or Norma brass trimmed and most but not all neck turn.
The reason I was asking is to see if maybe after 40 years of reloading I was doing something wrong for this style shooting and the general consenses was no just keep doing it the way you are and practice, practice, practice.
All of these guys have been at this a long time and every one of them says you need a 1/4 minute gun to be at the top of the score list consistently. With 5 or 6 of these guys being record holders for score shooting I'll follow their advice.
FROGGY
See profile for fire arms
Do it today there maybe no tomorrow
I am not a competetor and never really was at least to the point of being serious about it.
I cant remember hearing much conversation about annealing even from the serious shooters
i knew well untill rather recently. In fact most of them including a few record holders never annealed cases.
Id think that today with record groups being as small as they are and the competition being what it is,
shooters are grasping at every straw they can with the hope of winning. I think in reality it always has come
down to a good shooter with an exceptional gun coupled with a good portion of luck for setting records.
I was by no means trying to sway you from what the guys told you or ruffle your feathers I'm only stating what I have heard from other top shooters here and what ive tested and know works for me.
you have about 30 more years of re-loading than I do so maybe I'm the one doing something wrong...but it seems to be working pretty well so far.
I agree about the shooter and gun and also agree that guys are doing and trying everything they can to reduce group sizes...everyone has their opinion on what works and what don't...because one guy don't anneal and one guy does or because one guy FL sizes and one guy don't but both are shooting tiny groups does that make one way wrong or right?...I read a lot and talk to a lot of old shooters...I take in what sounds reasonable and let the rest drift through...if something sounds reasonable I will or have tried it...annealing is one that I tried and it helped a bunch as well as FL sizing every time...I shot for almost 2yrs and never annealed or FL sized until I had to really lean on the bolt to eject then id size with a body die neck size and shoot...never tumbled,never cleaned primer pockets just load and shoot.
Speaking practical... with the 7mm rm the op referenced.
I shot 100 rounds of factory ww ammo saving the brass to reload. Of those I had 13 with spit necks.
I annealed the rest and afterwards no more split necks. Now I anneal all my bottleneck brass.
Keeping things consistent seems to be key.
I f/l size because it helps me be consistent and in a pinch can share some ammo between rifles.
Having a die that fits well keeps the bulge at the belt from forming. Took me a couple before I got one that worked well.
Doesn't seem to matter which method to follow as much as treating the cases exactly the same.
The auto feed annealing looks very cool. Still use the deep socket, pail of water n a torch.
The salt bath method looks more my skill level. May give that a try sometime.
I do believe annealing might help in improving case life. Especially with neck splits as has been mentioned.
Reshaped cases and old new brass seem especially vulnerable to neck splits. On large capacity cases the primer
pockets are the main cause of case failure and annealing dosent help that. It would seem to me the neck consistancy
argument is what might cause me to anneal for accuracy if i were a serious competitor. But that for me would be one of the final
pieces of the puzzel, after the picture of first me then the gun were complete.
First my apologizes to Nandy for taking this some what off topic.
Yobuck reading your posts and seeing we are about the same age I would venture to guess we were taught the same thing when younger. That being if you can hit a six inch pie plate 5 for 5 you are good enough for hunting deer, then it was hit a 4" pie plate, well you know what I mean. Personally I always felt that was wrong and started loading so I could keep all my shots 1" or better at 100 yards and being in Ct. never had the need for a long range load (still don't).
Then I foolishly started BR shooting and that changed the playing field, had to relearn reloading because now I have to chase the smallest groups possible so everything is measured and weighed twice before it is completed, it takes about 3 hours to load 50 rounds for a match.
LongRange no problems with the discussion we are both adults with differing opinions and ways of doing things. No one way is perfect or for that matter right they both are. Do what works for your style of shooting. I am going out on a limb here and will say I doubt any shooters shooting your discipline load during a match where as at short range not only do some load at the match they load for the changing conditions for the match. Some of them only bring 25-30 cases with them and load as they go, putting 6-7 firings on a case a day ( no time for annealing).
When I started this game 4 years ago I was told new barrel new brass, new season new brass and stubbornly didn't follow this advice until this year. The brass I shot this past Saturday has at least 7 maybe 8 firings on it, it has never been over loaded for higher velocity and when shooting for groups stays well under .3 for 5 shots@ 100, averaging 2890 fps for 105 gr. 6mm bullet.
Now the season is over and it will be relegated to brass for hunting loads. Next year I will be using a 6mm BR screwed on to my PTA and very possibly a 30 BR screwed on to my Mod. 12 single shot. Thinking about Hunter class for that one- 6x scope no heavier than 10 lbs. total, I will need a whole lot of practice for that one, I don't know if I can see that 1/2" circle or the 1/16 dot @ 100 with a 6x scope. I highly doubt it my eyes are old, it seems like the targets get further and further away every year.
Over all I guess what I am saying is there is no one way to load the perfect bullet but many ways to screw up a bullet, so what ever works for you go for it. I wish you nothing but good luck for all your shooting whether competition or hunting and seeing some of your posted targets it isn't luck that is needed.
FROGGY
See profile for fire arms
Do it today there maybe no tomorrow
what would you say is needed?
For the other competitors to have bad days. lol
On a serious note maybe just maybe a small tweak on your seating depth or just a little less velocity otherwise they are very good for the discipline you are shooting. Remember I DO NOT shoot long range or your style of shooting so I could be way off base here.
In the style I shoot horizontal is typically seating depth and vertical is velocity( up too much, down too little).
FROGGY
See profile for fire arms
Do it today there maybe no tomorrow
LOL...agreed...the thing with me is i post the good with the bad i dont just post the one hole groups which both of my rifles will shoot and i am always looking to improve so not all my targets look like shot gun blasts believe it or not.
after my F-open match saturday im going to play with seating a little first then neck tension...all my shot broke clean but were drifting high and low in and out of the X-9 and 10 ring.
my apologizes as well to Nandy for taking your tread off topic
Do a search but IIRC " if the sun is up aim low, if the sun is down aim high."
On Sat. with full sun I was a little high in the 10 ring when it went to full cloud cover I dropped 3 shots low just out of the 10 ring (lost the match because of it) ended up clicking 2 up and went back to dead center.
In comp. every little thing counts.
FROGGY
See profile for fire arms
Do it today there maybe no tomorrow
I know in long range outdoor target archery, on a bright sunny day, if a cloud happened by, it affected your shot left or right (can't remember which way). It seems hard to believe, but it's true. Tell that to a novice shooter that does well just to get 1/2 of his arrows into the 4 inch ten ring at 90 meters and you're gonna mess him up.
I also suspect that different rifles will need different annealing practices. If it's a tight chamber, the brass is less likely to get over worked, therefore it will not NEED to be annealed as often.
I say if you suspect your brass will shoot better after annealing, try it. If it helps, try it more often. If you enjoy it, anneal twice just for good measure.Consistent neck tension and load development, etc. never hurt anyone.
Members who have read this thread in the last 1 days: 0
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks