Top mounted and 45 degree secondary sight for close range.

lrshooting · 09-30-2015, 03:35 PM

I put a 6-24x50 viper pst ffp scope on my gun and as such, planned to put another sighting system on. Ive heard it's hard to keep 45s aligned correctly, but a top mount reflex or something similar will work well. Only use is deer hunting.which I tend to be close pretty often during drives. Can I use 6x? Yes, I've shot many many deer like that, but it's just a bit more of a pain and I have more problems getting a shot. I used a gun I was very comfortable with though and I could raise up with the cross hairs already centered on target. I usually have a harder time at shots <25 yds

**foxx** · 09-30-2015, 07:57 PM

I generally prefer lower range of magnification for deer hunting so I don't have to worry about trying to use open sights. Of course, I hunt heavy cover (mostly thick, dark cedar swamps) and occasionally hunt the edge of the swamps which still don't allow for anymore than 350 yard shots due to the terrain. I keep my scopes at the lowest setting (1.75 when available) so I can confidently pull up for a quick, close range running shot knowing I can always take a moment and turn it up to max power if a shooter is seen further out.

D.ID · 09-30-2015, 09:19 PM

Train with 6X................it will become less of a pain the more you do it.

lrshooting · 10-01-2015, 08:20 AM

Four years I did that with a cheap 6-24 scope on a 223. Killed many deer, but I missed several opportunities because the magnification was so high it was hard to distinguish deer from brush at close ranges. I don't have a problem shooting the ones in the clear as I can draw ill my gun and it's pointed exactly where I want it so I don't need to find my target...kind of like instinctive shooting with traditional bow.

The 6x power just takes all the contrast and shape out of deer at close range and that makes it extremely difficult when they are moving. Very few of my shots are at standing deer during midday hours.

D.ID · 10-01-2015, 09:03 AM

Sounds like a full range scope on a point blank gun. I think I would switch scopes before I added an extra sighting system or more likely carry a pistol with good sights for those occasions.
You do not need need allot of power at <25yrds for dear............45acp or 357 would be very adequate and a lot more practical than addition junk hanging off your rifle.

lrshooting · 10-01-2015, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by D.ID

Sounds like a full range scope on a point blank gun. I think I would switch scopes before I added an extra sighting system or more likely carry a pistol with good sights for those occasions.
You do not need need allot of power at <25yrds for dear............45acp or 357 would be very adequate and a lot more practical than addition junk hanging off your rifle.

True. But to clarify this rifles use...

Its made to shoot long range. My area has close range to very long range opportunities. I try to get at least within 600-700 yds and closer if possible. The biggest problems are the areas I farm on river bottoms that are large and open. You cant get close to them and usually you are up to 800 yards+ when you see them. I can sneak up on them if Im careful and get 500-600 before one picks me out.

Then again, I also hunt a lot of draws. I dont do sitting hunts either, so carrying one gun for long and one for short isn't a good solution, as I would have to carry both with the style I do. Its just so variable.

Your advice is sound, and I would do that in most cases, it just doesn't work for this one. I dont have a pistol ATM and probably wont for a while. I just cant justify for specifically short range hunting.

**yobuck** · 10-01-2015, 01:05 PM

I think several things need be considered. First you already know the ideal gun for the close up shots that would be typical on deer drives,
wont be ideal for the longer shots. A compromise is possible, but not likely with a 6x24x scope.
I doubt there are many people here who have been involved in more deer drives than ive been. For the first 20 years of my
hunting career thats how we hunted and all we did. Ill make a prediction without knowing you or the others you hunt with.
If you hunt with a group of say 10, at least 2 of those 10 are essentually excess baggage as for their usefullness. Maybe 4 out of the
10 keep the whole thing afloat and do most of the work. The same 4 also kill most of the deer. What percentage of (your) kills came
from driving as opposed to other methods? What percentage of (your)time is allocated to each method in order to reach those numbers?
Have you ever tried a long range only method for an entire season?
The decision just might be how your gonna hunt, and not what scope to use.

lrshooting · 10-02-2015, 09:51 AM

I hunt 4-5 drives a year, but as you say, extra people are extra baggage. I like to keep one person per drawl, with 2 or 3 for wide draws. That usually means we don't run any more then about 4 people max with 2 sitters. Becomes very dangerous the more people you add after a certain point. One such guy I hunted with last year got a happy trigger finger and I heard something crack past my head. He will no longer be hunting with me again...ever.

That aside, missouri has a unlimited anterless deer permit regulation for most counties in my area. Ive shot upwards of 25 deer in a season when they got bad one year of which 10 were shot during drives. 3 or 4 were past 400 yards and the rest varied in range. Usually average 7-10 deer a year, mostly does as I don't care too much for trophy hunting and don't take the time for buck management or scouting. I just want them out of my corn.

So everything is some what even. I let my brothers use my 223 and sks so I do need to use this particular gun so it is an optic choice. Perhaps I need to just wear a back pack, get good quality qd rings and just switch depending on what I'm doing during that time. Problem is that will cost me $500+ to get another scope and quality rings and im so far over budget on this gun already, I hate to do that.

**sixonetonoffun** · 10-02-2015, 05:07 PM

2-7 burris would do for hunting. Fullfield is under $150. Keep the Viper for range time.

**LoneWolf** · 10-02-2015, 05:24 PM

I put 18 out of 20 on a 16" circle at 500yds with a 4X Trijicon ACOG. Position was unsupported prone with sling shooting an off the rack used and abused M16A2 from the armory with standard issue FMJ ammo during the 2013 Intramural matches at Camp Pendleton. Get yourself a quality 3-9 or 3-15 and practice snap shots at 25-50yds. Stop trying to over compensate with more crap on your rifle or wait for a better shot!

lrshooting · 10-02-2015, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by LoneWolf

I put 18 out of 20 on a 16" circle at 500yds with a 4X Trijicon ACOG. Position was unsupported prone with sling shooting an off the rack used and abused M16A2 from the armory with standard issue FMJ ammo during the 2013 Intramural matches at Camp Pendleton. Get yourself a quality 3-9 or 3-15 and practice snap shots at 25-50yds. Stop trying to over compensate with more crap on your rifle or wait for a better shot!

over compensate?? Im just having fun with this build. Nothing to do with over compensating. Ive never shot a gun that cost over 600$ till I built this one. And I never bought a scope that was more than 120$. I assure you, my old guns work fine and have killed many many things. Over compensating is not the word. Just wanting something that is the best I can buy is more like it. Of course the best is opinion.

**sharpshooter** · 10-02-2015, 11:22 PM

This is what I came up with for close range coyotes.

It is a Burris FastFire on a recoil lug mount. Roll the gun left and your eye is lined up perfect. Had to use it several times on those sneaky coyotes that come in from below.

lrshooting · 10-03-2015, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by sharpshooter

This is what I came up with for close range coyotes.

It is a Burris FastFire on a recoil lug mount. Roll the gun left and your eye is lined up perfect. Had to use it several times on those sneaky coyotes that come in from below.

So ive messed with a 45 like that (oddly enough it was fast fire as well, and it seemed to work well enough but the guy that owned it said he has problems keeping it aligned correctly with the barrel and you get a bad case of parallax.

**foxx** · 10-03-2015, 11:29 AM

^^^^?? How good does it have to be, parallax wise?

**yobuck** · 10-03-2015, 11:54 AM

Back in the day, people like me (thought) the best way to hunt deer was to drive.
Many shots especially for the drivers were close running shots on the ones going
back thru the drivers. Instinctive shooters who were quick to react did well while
others couldnt even get a shot off. We also would glass field edges in the mornings
and evenings where shots could reach about 3/400 yds. My choice setup at that point
was a Rem 760 pump in 06 with a see thru scope mount and a 2.5 Weaver scope.
That gave me the option of using iorn sights or the scope.
It worked very well for the driving part. But for the longer shots the 760 failed miserably.
The scope setup with a varieable could work well for someone like you however.

lrshooting · 10-03-2015, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by foxx

^^^^?? How good does it have to be, parallax wise?

I suppose it depends. For deer hunting, bad parallax at any range further than 25 yards or so could mean a miss, liver shot, gut shot, etc.

**sharpshooter** · 10-03-2015, 06:18 PM

I never experienced any parralax problems. I sighted in @ 25 yds, and can still hit a 6" plate @100 yds. If he had problems keeping it aligned with the barrel, he must have had a flimsy mount. This one is on a recoil lug mount with a steel base plate for a direct mount to the Burris Fastfire. It eliminated the piccatinny rail.