7mm-300 saum or 7mm-300 wsm

lrshooting · 09-07-2015, 01:50 AM

They are also often called 7mm saum or 7mm wsm but Lyman suggest that 7mm saum actually has an advantage in speed. Not a ton, but some. I can't see a reason other than speed that saum would be better. WSM are more popular as far as I know and I find more data and supplies for them.

Reason I ask is I gave a built gun on a short action. Had I known more about guns when I bought it, I would have got a long action in 308 so I had more options. Im having the idea that side ive spent so much time and money on bedding, inletting, stock, etc, I need to just stick with this action and gun as a whole. I can never get my money back on such a custom build. But the idea that I can stick a 7mm 300 wsm in a short action, sacrifice a little speed, and have very good ballistics and accuracy is tempting. I have the barrel in 308 right now. Id simply buy another barrel in 7mm 300wsm and use it as a swap gun.

Next gun I get is probably gonna be a 338 lapua which will be awhile and I understand the economics of it is terrible but the reasons for such a purchase or build are not necessary to discuss. Either way, Id like to be able to save money (for a 338 possibly) and have one gun in as many short action configurations as I like so if I want magnum performance, I'm going to have to go with something like a wsm or saum.

aqua9945 · 09-07-2015, 07:05 AM

There are actually 3 cartridges here you are speaking about: The 7mm saum, the 7mm wsm, and the 7mm-300 wsm. The latter 2 are slightly different. In the true 7mm wsm the shoulder has been moved forward a little to stop it chambering in the 300wsm chamber. The 7mm-300 wsm is a wildcat with a slightly longer neck favoured by target shooters. Even better for target, is the 7mm saum. It uses a bit less powder to get the job done and is reputed to have better accuracy and barrel life but thats just what i heard. I actually have the 7mm saum chambered in a savage lrp with ptg magnum SA boltface. Even though the cases are made from 300 saum norma brass, its a true 7mm saum after forming. Although its a repeater and i have a 2 round magazine for it, when i shoot targets the round is too long for a magazine and we shoot single shot anyways so i use a fred sled.

**LoneWolf** · 09-07-2015, 10:54 AM

Good info Aqua. From what I hear you should go with whatever you can find the brass for!

**FW Conch** · 09-07-2015, 11:00 AM

I have been very interested in this subject for some time, even though I have no need for any of these rounds.

But if I were to make the leap, I would go for the 6.5 saum GAP. I believe in the superiority of the 6.5mm pill. And I feel that the Rem SAUM is a true short action round. If I were to do what I wanted, use long heavy pills, I feel the WSM deserves a long action. The GAP chamber has the throat that appeals to me.

JMHO ... Good Luck-Good Shooting ... Jim :)

**LoneWolf** · 09-07-2015, 11:03 AM

The 6.5 pills will never do it as well as the 180 Berger in the 7mm. Berger is coming out with a 195gr ELR pill as well, but you would need a bigger Magnum for that!

lrshooting · 09-07-2015, 11:58 AM

Thanks for the info!

So it seems they are comparable in almost everyway except dimensions. Saum would be more appealing to me if it would it would feed in a short action with AICS style magazines. For what ever reason, they are actually rated faster with the same bullet and powder.

I basically want it for some extended range hunting. But for target shooting past what I hunt at, I can single feed need be. It's on a 10 action

**scope eye** · 09-07-2015, 12:11 PM

I have a 7 WSM and enough brass to last a while but if I were to do this from scratch today, I would go with the 7-300 WSM due to Brass availability you can use 270 and 300 WSM Brass, 7 WSM is really hard to find and 7 saum is next to impossible to find. Even Remington stopped chambering rifles in that caliber over 5 years ago, and if it wasn't for bench shooters and they aftermarket would have died and gone into obscurity a long time ago.

Dean

**upSLIDEdown** · 09-07-2015, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by LoneWolf

The 6.5 pills will never do it as well as the 180 Berger in the 7mm. Berger is coming out with a 195gr ELR pill as well, but you would need a bigger Magnum for that!

I dunno, I'd really like to see that 195 out of a 7saum.

lrshooting · 09-07-2015, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by scope eye

I have a 7 WSM and enough brass to last a while but if I were to do this from scratch today, I would go with the 7-300 WSM due to Brass availability you can use 270 and 300 WSM Brass, 7 WSM is really hard to find and 7 saum is next to impossible to find. Even Remington stopped chambering rifles in that caliber over 5 years ago, and if it wasn't for bench shooters and they aftermarket would have died and gone into obscurity a long time ago.

Dean

Really? I find tons if both wsm and saum. Necking them down from .3 and turning the necks is all that is needed as far as I know.

**Robinhood** · 09-07-2015, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by scope eye

Even Remington stopped chambering rifles in that caliber over 5 years ago, and if it wasn't for bench shooters and they aftermarket would have died and gone into obscurity a long time ago.
Dean

This blows me away. How can a 270 WSM beat out the 7mm. And there is no 6.5 WSM/SAUM. Marketing people! Sacre blue

**scope eye** · 09-07-2015, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by lrshooting

Really? I find tons if both wsm and saum. Necking them down from .3 and turning the necks is all that is needed as far as I know.

There may be some in your neck of the woods, but you would be hard pressed to find any at any of the major online suppliers.

Dean

lrshooting · 09-07-2015, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by scope eye

There may be some in your neck of the woods, but you would be hard pressed to find any at any of the major online suppliers.

Dean

??? Have you looked online? Midway,brownells, grafs, etc etc all have wsm for sure and most have saum. Im talking about 300 tho. Not 7mm 300 if that's what your meaning. I figured on necking down my brass in the first place. I like the fact that with neck downs, you have more control over thickness and concentricity, although I've heard Norma brass is pretty well perfect

aqua9945 · 09-08-2015, 12:37 AM

Yes, get the brass first. I secured 200 Norma 300 saum cases before I went ahead with the conversion of my Savage LRP from 284 win to 7 saum. And of course I got the right bolt head. The velocity is between 2900 and 2950 fps with berger 180 vlds. It has X ring accuracy. Low pressure. I have pre ordered a couple of boxes of 195gr bergers and I have an 8.5 twist barrel in there and an 8 twist in storage. If we can get 2800 to 2850 fps with the new projectile I think it will be ok in the saum. There is no point using a bigger magnum if you cannot tune it to a winning level. My gunsmith has tried the 280 AI & the 7mm rem mag and has also switched to the saum. Having said that , it may be that the 7mm-300 wsm, or 7mm wsm is a better choice for the 195gr with powder a step slower. At the moment we are both getting good results and clean burning with ADI 2213SC (like H4831).

lrshooting · 09-08-2015, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by aqua9945

Yes, get the brass first. I secured 200 Norma 300 saum cases before I went ahead with the conversion of my Savage LRP from 284 win to 7 saum. And of course I got the right bolt head. The velocity is between 2900 and 2950 fps with berger 180 vlds. It has X ring accuracy. Low pressure. I have pre ordered a couple of boxes of 195gr bergers and I have an 8.5 twist barrel in there and an 8 twist in storage. If we can get 2800 to 2850 fps with the new projectile I think it will be ok in the saum. There is no point using a bigger magnum if you cannot tune it to a winning level. My gunsmith has tried the 280 AI & the 7mm rem mag and has also switched to the saum. Having said that , it may be that the 7mm-300 wsm, or 7mm wsm is a better choice for the 195gr with powder a step slower. At the moment we are both getting good results and clean burning with ADI 2213SC (like H4831).

So what is your reasoning for going with wsm over saum for 195 grain pills?

Man, I'm getting excited now! Ive heard several times saum is supposedly more accurate, costs the same and is a tad shorter allowing either longer bullets with out seating deeper or allows you too mag feed rounds used for hunting which usually are a little smaller due to less weight for faster bullets.

Or that's how I hunt any way... Add a couple hundred fps and you increase your hydraulic shock and K.E. dramatically. Simple physics. Those light bullets just aren't super for long range targets and I plan on keeping my animals close enough that I won't need a heavy bullet. Might just switch to 308 for deer because I have a feeling a 7mm300 saum isn't gonna leave much on the front end

aqua9945 · 09-08-2015, 02:10 AM

I have no reasoning for the wsm !! I own a saum and for the 195gr I think it will give me 2800- 2850 with about 58gr 2213/4831 .... But i cant be sure until i try it ..... i know its a great choice provided you get the brass first. I just mean it may turn out that the wsm case with a little slower powder is a bit better, for driving the heavier pill, but i dont think anyone knows yet.... they are both good choices but i have no regrets about the saum. I have no hesitation in recommending it (or the wsm) over the larger belted magnums for f class (10kg weight limit). If I had to choose now i would still choose the saum over any others.....

lrshooting · 09-08-2015, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by aqua9945

I have no reasoning for the wsm !! I own a saum and for the 195gr I think it will give me 2800- 2850 with about 58gr 2213/4831 .... But i cant be sure until i try it ..... i know its a great choice provided you get the brass first. I just mean it may turn out that the wsm case with a little slower powder is a bit better, for driving the heavier pill, but i dont think anyone knows yet.... they are both good choices but i have no regrets about the saum. I have no hesitation in recommending it (or the wsm) over the larger belted magnums for f class (10kg weight limit). If I had to choose now i would still choose the saum over any others.....

So why get the brass first? I've found several online retailers for 300 wsm and saum. About 1.80$ a case on average. I understand that you can't find it on shelves, but it seems it's out there.

Not saying it's a bad idea, just trying to figure out why

aqua9945 · 09-08-2015, 07:48 AM

You cannot buy the brass anywhere in Australia where I live. When some is imported, it sells very quickly. I have more on order, but fortunately its tough brass and should handle many reloads, unlike 284 win... If its available where you are, fine. but I would make sure first. Norma brass is better for target and reloading, and of course its made in Sweden.

lrshooting · 09-08-2015, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by aqua9945

You cannot buy the brass anywhere in Australia where I live. When some is imported, it sells very quickly. I have more on order, but fortunately its tough brass and should handle many reloads, unlike 284 win... If its available where you are, fine. but I would make sure first. Norma brass is better for target and reloading, and of course its made in Sweden.

Honestly, as long as it's not made in China or some other Asian country I don't care. Not that China doesn't make some top notch stuff for some industries, but I'm getting pretty fed up with their society and my computer getting hacked. Flame suit on.

But back to the subject, I'm dead center in the US. I live with in a hour and a half of midway usa and I go to college down there any way so getting brass shouldn't be a problem. I'll still get it first though. That way I have time to work with it.

aqua9945 · 09-09-2015, 07:28 AM

My magnum SA tpg boltface came from Midway. works like a charm. these can be imported legally into australia but brass would get stopped without the right permit. more difficult but not impossible.

lrshooting · 09-09-2015, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by aqua9945

My magnum SA tpg boltface came from Midway. works like a charm. these can be imported legally into australia but brass would get stopped without the right permit. more difficult but not impossible.

Did you get a PTG head? He makes some good stuff there.
I'm looking at their stuff and I don't think it will be so easy for them to mess up the order like they did with my bottom metal. Although going through midway would be better. I might stop there today and get one.