338-06 blowing primers

[olddav]

I'm stuck and am looking for help. I have been trying to develop a load for my 338-06 with the following: Barnes 160 grain *TTSX bullets, H335 powder, Winchester WLR primers, brass is new resized 30-06 Winchester.*

When I started I performed a ladder test in November starting at 57 grains and going to 62 grains in 0.2 grains increments. I found nodes at 59.3, 60.7 and 61.3.*

With 61.3 grains of powder I started blowing out primers as the day heated up. I moved down to the next node (60.7) and loaded up more rounds. Today I shot them, first four no signs of pressure, on the fifth round it blew out another primer. I am no where near the max load or the lands and I'm still blowing primers.

*Every charge is weighted, placed in casing and bullet seated before moving to the next round. *Anybody got an ideas?

[earl39]

According to Hodgdon's web site you are starting at the max load. What kind of speed are you getting? Hodgdon says 3057fps with Max load of 57.0 grains of H335 and 59,800 psi.

[olddav]

Barnes provided the starting and max charge weights for their bullet (160 grain TTSX) using H335.

[sixonetonoffun]

Barnes H335 data starts at 57gr @3095 and goes up to 62gr @3241. That does seem screaming fast for a 160gr bullet though.

From your info seems the only change was temperature. So much for the Extreme edge.

The only other thing is they always say to clean the barrel with copper remover like montana extreme before shooting barnes bullets.

Especially if it has been used before with standard cup n core bullets. (Soaking one of mine for a couple days right now will see if it helps shoot the barnes).

I really wanted to like the Barnes bullets but the are a little finicky without a doubt.

[darkker]

Barrenness provided the starting and Max loads, fine. Did they provide the powder lot number, brass lot & primer lot?? So no, you don't have the same components.

[Dewey7271]

You also didn't mention your COAL vs the throat on your rifle. If you have some touching or slightly longer than the others could be a spike if they're jammed or close. JMO though.

[Luke45]

I'm stuck and am looking for help. I have been trying to develop a load for my 338-06 with the following: Barnes 160 grain *TTSX bullets, H335 powder, Winchester WLR primers, brass is new resized 30-06 Winchester.*

When I started I performed a ladder test in November starting at 57 grains and going to 62 grains in 0.2 grains increments. I found nodes at 59.3, 60.7 and 61.3.*

With 61.3 grains of powder I started blowing out primers as the day heated up. I moved down to the next node (60.7) and loaded up more rounds. Today I shot them, first four no signs of pressure, on the fifth round it blew out another primer. I am no where near the max load or the lands and I'm still blowing primers.

*Every charge is weighted, placed in casing and bullet seated before moving to the next round. *Anybody got an ideas?

I had a bad lot of Winchester primers that were undersized. they blew out in every caliber i tried them in

[earl39]

Ok dav let us make this real simple. If you are blowing primers you are over pressure. It don't make a hill of beans what the book says. For your weapon, brass, powder, bullets and primers and conditions you are way to hot.

[olddav]

sixonetonoffun
I think I will give the barrel a good cleaning but It has less than 100 rounds through it, but....

Dewey7271
COL of rounds fired, 3.335 & 3.295. I used a bullet comparator to set each bullet. Right now I can remember what the depth of the lands are but rest assured (assume) that I am well short of the lands.

Luke45
I use the same primers in my 30-06 without any issues, don't know if that means anything but is info.

earl39
In the OP I stated that the first four rounds displayed no pressure signs and then the fifth blew out the primer. All rounds had the same charge and were well short of the lands

[jonbearman]

I have a friend who shoots a custom Winchester in 35 wsm and he uses the same barnes bullets and he wont shoot more than 10 of the ttsx bullets without recleaning the barrel. How are you sizing your brass, could you be inducing a headspace problem if not measured and the die set up right.

[sharpshooter]

I'm wondering why you would use H-335???? 4831, 4350,4064 would be better choices.

[olddav]

jonbearman,
I setup the dies per the instructions provided by the manufacture. I set the headspace with a 30-06 go-gauge and added tape for the no-go gauge. Haven't measured the chamber but I do not have this problem with the 225 or 250 grain Hornady bullets I shoot, (I do not use the H335 with the Hornady bullets).

sharpshooter,
The H335 was chosen due to VERY limited info I could find on the bullet. If anyone can provide me with a safe min and max charge weight for IMR4350 I would give that a try. I agree that the H335 seemed like an odd powder to use in this application but I did have date provided by the manufacture of the bullet. I sent Barnes an email questioning the load data they sent me but haven't heard back from them yet.

[sharpshooter]

Look up load data for a 30-06 and 160 gr. bullets. Basically it's the same case, same weight of bullet. With the data I just reviewed in the Sierra Manual, I'd start out with 51 grs. and work my way up.

[BillPa]

This might be of some help.

--------------------------------------------------
Rifle Load Results

Load From A Disk v5.0

Date: 6/18/15

Cartridge Name: 338-06
__________________________________________________ ________________________________

Bullet Type = .338 160-GR TTSX FB BARNES Bullet Weight = 160.0 grains
Bullet Diameter = 0.338 in Bullet Length = 1.260 in
Bullet BC = 0.342 Sectional Density = 0.2
Case Type = 338 - 06 Case Length = 2.494 in
Full Case Capacity = 68.781 grains water Est. Overall Cartridge Length = 3.340 in
Net Case Capacity = 59.405 grains water Bullet Seating Depth = 0.414 in
Rifle Type = Barrel Length = 24.0 in
Effective Barrel Length = 21.92 in Barrel/Case Volume Ratio = 9.2
Cartridge Temperature = 70.0 °F
__________________________________________________ ________________________________

Powder: H335
Calculated Powder Charge = 53.1 grains
Load Density = 89.4%
Charge/Bullet Weight Ratio = 0.332
Estimated Muzzle Velocity = 2795 ft/sec
Estimated Chamber Pressure = 45772 CUP
__________________________________________________ ________________________________

WARNING: For starting loads reduce calculated powder charge by at least 10%.


Load Table
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Density -grains- Wt. Ratio-velocity-CUP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
75 44.6 0.279 2348 31118 OK
80 47.5 0.297 2500 36117 OK
85 50.5 0.316 2658 41289 OK
90 53.5 0.334 2816 46461 OK
95 56.4 0.353 2969 51461 High Pressure
100 59.4 0.371 3127 56633 High Pressure


N540 was the slowest powder suggested.

Bill

[olddav]

sharpshooter
I thought about that but was concerned about the difference in bearing surfaces. Don't know if it's important but so far unknowns are killing me.

BillPa
I assume you have provided me with info from "Quickload"?

[BillPa]

BillPa
I assume you have provided me with info from "Quickload"?

No, from the now orphaned "Load From A Disk", the creator-publisher passed away a couple years ago. I originally bought it when I put my 270-08 Imp together, try finding data for that one!

Like OL its not always 100% spot on but generally its in the ballpark.

Bill

[olddav]

BillPa
I hate to ask but I'm still trying to make sense of what I have see with this bullet, can you rerun the same load except with a cartridge temp of 45 deg.? If not I understand and thanks for the info.

[BillPa]

BillPa
I hate to ask but I'm still trying to make sense of what I have see with this bullet, can you rerun the same load except with a cartridge temp of 45 deg.? If not I understand and thanks for the info.

Rifle Load Results

Load From A Disk v5.0

Date: 6/19/15

Cartridge Name:
__________________________________________________ ________________________________

Bullet Type = .338 160-GR TTSX FB BARNES Bullet Weight = 160.0 grains
Bullet Diameter = 0.338 in Bullet Length = 1.260 in
Bullet BC = 0.342 Sectional Density = 0.2
Case Type = 338 - 06 Case Length = 2.494 in
Full Case Capacity = 68.781 grains water Est. Overall Cartridge Length = 3.340 in
Net Case Capacity = 59.405 grains water Bullet Seating Depth = 0.414 in
Rifle Type = Barrel Length = 24.0 in
Effective Barrel Length = 21.92 in Barrel/Case Volume Ratio = 9.2
Cartridge Temperature = 45.0 °F
__________________________________________________ ________________________________

Powder: H335
Calculated Powder Charge = 53.1 grains
Load Density = 89.4%
Charge/Bullet Weight Ratio = 0.332
Estimated Muzzle Velocity = 2749 ft/sec
Estimated Chamber Pressure = 44286 CUP
__________________________________________________ ________________________________

WARNING: For starting loads reduce calculated powder charge by at least 10%.


Load Table
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Density- Weight to-Bullet- Velocity - Pressure Notes
(%) (grains) Wt. Ratio (ft/sec) (CUP)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
75 44.6 0.279 2309 30108 OK
80 47.5 0.297 2459 34945 OK
85 50.5 0.316 2615 39949 OK
90 53.5 0.334 2770 44953 OK
95 56.4 0.353 2920 49790 OK
100 59.4 0.371 3075 54794 High Pressure


I know I'm going to sound like a broken record, but are you using check weights to verify your scale is actually weighing accurately at the target weight?

[olddav]

Thanks for running the numbers again and it does seem to mirror what I have seen so far.
In reguard to check weights, I do not have a set but I have checked it against my old scales. They both agree on weight and unless I have two scales that read the wrong weight to the .10 grain then I believe its ok, although it could happen.

[BillPa]

, I do not have a set but I have checked it against my old scales. They both agree on weight.

OK, just check'n. ( No pun intended!)

[olddav]

I hate to drag up this old thread but I just heard from Barnes. They assured me that the load info that they supplied was accurate. I responded that I no longer trusted the info that they had supplied (at least not in the heat of the Gulf Coast).

[BillPa]

I hate to drag up this old thread but I just heard from Barnes. They assured me that the load info that they supplied was accurate.

Sure, for the components, rifle and under the conditions they used them. So much for what the book sez huh?

[olddav]

I have often heard, always use published receipt and never exceed max load. That kind of implies some reliability in data supplied by manufactures of componets. In this case not so much, I will not shoot another bullet (160 grain TTSX) untill I acquire a software program to help me find a safe range to start again. Call me a wimp if you must!

[LongRange]

I have often heard, always use published receipt and never exceed max load. That kind of implies some reliability in data supplied by manufactures of componets. In this case not so much, I will not shoot another bullet (160 grain TTSX) untill I acquire a software program to help me find a safe range to start again. Call me a wimp if you must!

Quick load

[BillPa]

I have often heard, always use published receipt and never exceed max load.

Its not unusual for charge weights to vary source to source, both starting and maximum. It depends on the components used and of course as we discussed earlier the ammo temperature when it was developed.

Bill