Heavy (long) for caliber in 22-250 1:12 twist Savage

[OlongJohnson]

I've been googling on this general topic for two nights, and have gotten to the point where I remember I've already read the thread about halfway down a forum page. Still don't feel like I have found the quantity and/or quality of personal testimony I'm hoping to find.

I'm thinking of a 22-250 Savage, factory barrel with 1:12 twist, 22" sporter, not the 26" heavy. Kind of an all-around light-caliber bolt gun. Something that would span from 22WMR equivalent with reduced loads and Hornet/Bee bullets, up to quite a bit more than a .223 can deliver. I'm not worried about the low end or mid range, as there's plenty of data for that. I don't have PD towns to worry about, so I'm not going to burn down a barrel across the prairie. More of a nice tool to carry in the woods and fields. My question is about how far the top end can be pushed.

Since there isn't really a minimum range shot, I'm a fan of tougher bullets like Barnes TTSX and/or Swift Scirocco IIs in calibers fast enough to "splash" more lightly-constructed bullets. Looking at the best-available stability calculations, with 1:12 twist and conservative 22-250 velocities, it appears 55gr TTSX should stabilize, 62gr SII will be on the edge (may stabilize, may not), and 62gr TSX and TTSX almost certainly won't.

I'm looking for personal reports of first-hand experience with these bullets. As in, "I tried it, and it didn't work at all / it was marginal (accuracy OK but definitely not as good as other loads in the same rifle) / it worked great!" Groups, load data, velocities, barrel length, etc.

It seems that custom builds generally go to 1:8 or 1:9 to shoot the long-range target bullets like 75-80gr. I'd be interested in any experience with custom barrels at the slowest twist to stabilize the above mentioned bullets, as well. Like 10:1 or 11:1, what length, and how well that worked, what bullets people were successful with, etc.

I'm not looking to start a discussion of stability factors, tech, etc. I've been mapping that rabbit hole for awhile, and added my own bells and whistles to the spreadsheet already. At the end of the day, real-world experience is necessary to clarify the edges of theory, and that's what I'm hoping to find here. Thanks!

[darkker]

There is no single answer to your question, but a truck load of conditional answers depending on many factors.
Go here, and look up the lengths(on the left), then put in your particulars for an idea of stability.
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

One of the many reasons the answer depends, is barrel smoothness plays a HUGE role in whether or not something actually stabilizes; regardless of the calculator.

As far as "Pushing the top end". That also depends. Since the days of WWII have long past, no one lists brass alloy, nor heat treat specs on brass anymore. So if you want to stay within SAAMI pressures, book data is ALL pressure tested. The loads vary simply due to burning rate variation with powders. In any case, an extra 75-100 fps will cost you something on the order of 15,000 psi additional. Without knowing your chamber and brass composition, NO ONE can tell you when the brass will fail.
From using a Pressure Trace over the holidays 8 months ago, MOST production firearms won't show classic "pressure signs" until you are well into the 70,000+ psi range. So short of a good Strain Gauge system to honestly measure pressure, you won't be comparing apples to apples.

[OlongJohnson]

Darkker, I thought I recognized you from over at 68forums. I'm familiar with the pressure trace work Constructor has posted about over there, and getting one of those systems is definitely on my list for eventually.

By "pushing the top end", I wasn't talking about chamber pressures. I just meant the largest/heaviest bullets that would work well in a factory-barrel 22-250 rifle. Always within safe pressures. If the job that needs to be done is outside the equipment's capability, get different equipment. There's always the 6.8, .308, or maybe some flavor of 6.5 may get added to the safe.

The "it depends" answer is baked into my questions. Maybe it was too long and wordy for that to be clear. Courtney has posted an Excel file that has the Miller solid, Miller/Courtney plastic tipped, and Courtney/Courtney open tip formulas all built into it. I've been playing with that, and put a decent net around the "it depends" zone. FWIW, the velocities I have been calculating with are ~150 fps below max loads, just to be conservative.

My reason for registering here and posting was to try to find reports of some real-world experience that would give some shape to reality in the "it depends" uncertainty cloud. :)

[benchrest]

I run the Berger 64gr Match in my model 12 with a 26in barrel 22-250 with 1 in 12 twist. Have had great result out to 500 yards on paper anyway.
Running a little over max load of Varget powder.
Min-30.5gr with a book max of 33.9gr's.
I'm seeing a average velocity of 3500fps with 34.5gr's.
I have also shot a lot of the 60gr Nosler ballistic tip's with IMR-4895 in my 22-250 with very decent decent result's. The Berger's have performed better for me in my 22-250. But both have been Minute of coyote to 400 plus yard's. I haven't played with it much lately since I bought LRP in .260 rem... I hope this help's you out a bit in your quest... Good luck... and keep us updated with any result's you find...

Cheer's

[stomp442]

The answer to many of your questions depends on the altitude you will be shooting at. Take for example I am able to stabilize the new 69gr Sierra tipped match king in my factory 12 twist barrel but I am one of the few that I have read about that are able to do that. Most of the reason why is because I do most of my shooting at 3000 feet and above.

[Luke45]

try a 65 gr gameking

[upSLIDEdown]

I'm looking for this info as well. I have a buddy that used to shoot a Remmy with a 1:12 and he swore by the Berger 64gr with Varget behind it.

I'm looking hard at the 53gr V-Max, personally. Here's why.

Berger 64gr G1 bc is .296
V-Max 53gr G1 bc is .290

V-max is a BTHP and the Berger is flat base.

With almost the same BC and a boat tail, theoretically, it should do just as well if not better at distance. It's also lighter, which should equal faster, and it's MUCH cheaper.

Anyone running this bullet?

[stomp442]

I was running the 53 Vmax before I switched over to the 69gr match king. I was getting right at 3700 with 36 grains of IMR 4064. The 53 is a great bullet but it just didn't perform as consistently for me past 400 yards.

[upSLIDEdown]

I'm below 1000ft altitude, so I don't see me stabilizing anything that big. Guess we'll see how it goes.

[stomp442]

This is true, the 53 may be just the ticket for you.

[upSLIDEdown]

I'm hoping so. We'll see. I shoot Berger in my Creedmoor, and I've got a buddy that had a 22-250 that shot the Berger 64s in his 1:12. That gun didn't seem to like anything Hornady, according to him. I'm hoping for better results, since the 53s are much cheaper than Bergers. We'll see i guess.