New Shooter, Newbie Questions, Stevens 110E

[JohnnyWadd]

I've spent a fair amount of time shooting in the course of my life, but never took it seriously. Never spent much time shooting rifles, mainly pistols. So I'm kind of lost when it comes to terminology for a lot of the parts. So I apologize for some of my ignorance and I may ask some stupid questions. I bow hunt, but I'm looking for a way to spend some more time shooting with my dad who is getting older. I have decent mechanical skills, shop, and tools. Just missing this niche knowledge. That said...

I picked up this Stevens 110E 30-06 for a pretty decent price. Stock seems a bit beat up, but barrel and "action" (?) seem in pretty good shape. I'm never worried about pretty, just function. I spent some time Sunday at the range with it, and it shoots pretty good. The trigger is absolutely miserable. It kicked my shoulder to the point where it wasn't fun to shoot anymore.

I have a couple questions. I investigated the trigger a bit after watching some youtube videos. Adjusting it didn't seem to help much. If I took any tension off the spring, the trigger wouldn't engage at all. With no tension on it, it was very gritty and didn't really like moving. Should I just ditch it and get an aftermarket? I don't mind spending money in the name of making a day at the range more enjoyable.

The plates that the scope rings bolt to, what are they called? Do they look right in these pictures? Everything related to mounting the scope seem kind of cobbled together and kind of mangled. What would be the correct way to mount this, and am I able to remove and remount a scope without losing the accuracy I established at the range the other day?

Of course the recoil took all the fun out of the day, so I was looking at the Pachmayr Slip on Recoil pad. Is this a worthwhile investment? Seems cheap enough. Also, my local sporting goods store had limited 30-06 loads. Is there a reputable place on the internet to get reduced recoil loads?

I'll stop with the questions for now. I have a dozen more...

[LHitchcox]

The scope bases look mismatched with one blue and one silver. Cosmetic issue only and not a problem. I haven't seen an extended rear base in the Weaver style. I normally use an extended Weaver front base (#402) and a #61 rear base on a flat back 110. Your rings are awfully high. I use medium Weaver Quad Lock rings from Walmart that cost about $12. For a better trigger pull without buying a $100 trigger, take a $1.00 Walmart buzz bait (not a spinner bait) and cut the wire to match the contour of the factory wire. That will give you enough tension to hold the sear and still have a manageable pull weight. As you have figured out the factory wire is of too heavy a diameter. If you have a trigger with a screw under the sear notch, you can reduce the sear engagement. If not, you can lightly polish the sear notch and get rid of some grittiness, but the sear engagement will still be long.

Remington makes reduced recoil ammo, but it is a bit expensive. I load my ammo, so it is simple to cut the powder charge. Buying ammo with a lighter weight bullet will help a lot. Stay at 150 grain bullets or lighter. The Limbsaver/Winchester slip on pads will also help a lot. The local Walmart has the Winchester slip on for about $23 or $24.

[foxx]

Welcome!

Rifle itself and the scope, especially, looks nice. If I were you, I'd replace the mounts and rings. They are likely very cheap mounts that get beat-up over time and cause/allow your scope to shift in place. My favorite ring/base combo for hunting is the DNZ GameReaper one piece mount and rings. It is fairly light weight, sturdy, the rings are pre-aligned to hold the scope without binding, etc. Not too expensive, when you consider its the "whole package" (not just mounts or rings). Your rifle is a flat back long action, so you would want to go with this particular model: http://www.amazon.com/Game-Reaper-Sa...+mounts+savage
No matter what, if you remove the scope or adjust anything with regards to the mounts, it will need re-adjusting for accuracy, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Also, I'd say that setup has the scope mounted too high above the barrel. I find them much more comfortable to shoot and more accurate if mounted just off the barrel (closer the better, but it should never touch).

If you've already tried improving the trigger, and not happy, I would recommend one of two different aftermarket triggers for hunting. 1. Sharp Shooter Supply Competition Trigger, http://www.sharpshootersupply.com/

2. Rifle Basix Sav-1 (or Timney, same idea) RB Sav-1 might be easier for you to install and tune, it's very similar to the original factory trigger you're already familiar with. I prefer SSS Comp trigger, but they are both excellent and you will be amazed at the difference it makes.

A good recoil pad is advisable. COnsider a removable, strap-on shoulder pad or one like you said that slips on and off the stock. I like Beartooth pads because they are simple neoprene with multiple pads that you insert and can customize for the shooter, your clothing, etc. http://www.amazon.com/Made-USA-Unive.../dp/B004RDOHVE

Lots of opinions out there, I could argue myself in and out of all of the above if I tried. :) Its a start. Good luck.

[pepper savage 111]

The trigger depends. Is there a wire on the side of the housing? If so, you could try to lighten the pull by using a smaller diameter piece of music wire. There may also be screws to adjust sear and safetty engagement. You can find more details if you search for 3-screw trigger adjustment. But there are a number of aftermarket triggers available to suit your needs. Just depends if it will be a hunting or target/varmint rifle.

The "plates" are called bases. You'll have better luck searching "scope bases" if you're looking for replacements. They should be fine as-is but I prefer to have bases that will mount the rings directly above the action instead of hanging into the loading/ejection port. You can also get a one piece base if your scope tube won't allow you mount 2-piece bases with proper eye relief.

If you unmount the scope and remount it, you'll most likely need to rezero the rifle.

As far as recoil goes, reduced loads will have a lower point of impact due to decreased velocity. A slip on recoil pad will help but tou still might have excessive muzzle rise due to the 30-06s power.

If this will be a target rifle and you dont mind some extra weight tou could opt for a varmint or bull contour barrel with the help of a few tools and a new stock. Rebarreling will also allow you to switch calibers if you want. Since you have a long action, your caliber options are almost limitless.

Feel free to pm me if you have other questions. Otherwise I'm sure others will chime in with more info.

Nice find by the way. Ive been looking for a 30-06 with iron sights. It's a very classic look.

[JohnnyWadd]

Wow, thanks guys. You all are amazingly helpful. That GameReaper mount looks like what I'm looking for. It seemed like with the separate bases and rings, there was a lot of pieces I could end up mangling. Will that bolt into the threaded holes that the current mounts use? Were those holes there from the factory?

I ultimately intend to hunt this rifle, but I feel I need a lot more time at the range before I would even consider aiming this thing at an animal. I had a good time at the range the other day. Everybody was very cool, happy to be there, enjoying the beautiful day and their equipment. That being said, I would really like to be able to shoot this thing regularly, and comfortably. I was also wondering about this barrel heating up. It got really hot. I would only fire it maybe every 2 minutes. At most maybe fire shots a minute apart. Does this heat affect the barrel or accuracy?

The Rifle Basix trigger looks almost exactly the same as what is in there, right? What is the difference? I'm not really looking to just make it lighter. When I took the spring off entirely and just moved the trigger back and forth, it seemed really stiff and almost notchy. That's really what I was trying to remedy.

I've got the GameReaper mount and a slip on recoil pad in the amazon cart now. Elaborating on the recoil, I was shooting the 150 gr Core Lokts. Not only was it beating up my shoulder, but my jaw from resting it on the stock. The barrel would jump so much I would lose my site picture and it would take me 10 or 15 seconds the reacquire the target I was shooting at. I'm not too concerned about losing velocity if I go to the reduced loads. I don't expect to be shooting ridiculous distances any time soon. I just couldn't find any reduced loads locally.

Would changing the the stock alone affect recoil at all, or would it require changing the barrel, also? I'm not afraid of adding weight within reason, even for hunting.

[pepper savage 111]

The rifle basix trigger is more adjustable than stock. The gritty feeling you'regetting could be due to the sear engagement or you just might need to clean it. Ronson or zippo lighter fluid will do the trick. Give that a go and see how it feels when you're done. I'd disassemble the trigger just to make sure the sand/dirt that's in there wont have a problem falling out.

I'm going to say your sore jaw is due to a poor cheek weld because your current rings are so high. The gamereaper will help that. Maybe a mildly padded stock pack will help as well.

If you change stocks you could get a heavier one to help absorb the recoil. And with that, as most aftermarket stocks have a generous barrel channel, you would be set to go if you decided on a heavier contour barrel down the road. I know gunshack.com has e.r. shaw varmint contour 30-06 barrels for $199. It's not a top of the line custom barrel but I'm sure it'll suit hunting just fine. A heavier barrel and stock will definitely cut down on felt recoil. But it is more weight to carry .

[pepper savage 111]

And no,you dont have to change the barrel if you change stocks. But you will have to change stocks if you go with a heavier barrel. Unless you're good with sandpaper and a dowel, then all you'd been to do is put a little elbow grease into it.

[foxx]

All good questions and answers from pepper.

As for the trigger, the rifle basix trigger has basically the same design but it is finished better. Surfaces and edges are truer and more refined, It's what you would have if you took your factory trigger to a good gunsmith and had him hone and polish it, etc. You may just have crud in the mechanism, too. SPray lighter fluid in there as pepper said and it might suit you when done. Don't be afraid to take it apart and play with it. Just don't file or polish anything, you're not ready for that.

As for recoil and your stock,,, your current stock is not all that whimpy. another might not help much. Depends on your "body build" etc. Might also be the way you hold and grip it. Make sure you have the stock firmly in the pocket of your shoulder. Use pads. Muzzle rise is mostly due to the weight of the barrel and cartridge. Heavier barrel would help, but might not be as much a problem as you think it is. Might just need to learn to shoot better and be careful not to develop a flinch. all comes with time and experience. Many people will tell you the best way to learn is to get a .22LR, cheap ammo, little to no recoil, fun. Learn to hold, learn trigger control, learn to sight... keep it up. Don't shoot if you get tired or feel scared of it. You will definitely learn to flinch and become recoil sensitive and its hard to break. ALso, let the barrel cool between shots maybe a few minutes. You can damage or shorten it's life by overheating the first part of the barrel right infront of the chamber called the throat. It gets hit by HOT gases with every shot and will eventually burn away.

[JohnnyWadd]

Thanks for all the help guys. Heading home now, so I'll dig into the trigger a little further tonight. Hopefully I will have a more insight. Ordered the gamereaper, so I'll take everything off and give it the decent cleaning it deserves. Guess I'll need to find some more ammo this week and try some padding. I was really trying to avoid developing a flinch, but this thing was beating me up.

I've been shooting the air rifle from a bench for the last couple months. I've been trying to shoot something every day in the back yard, whether it was the bow or the air rifle. So this was quite the shock after a few rounds! Really trying not to flinch.

[bsekf]

You have what is called a "see through" scope mount. Theory is so you can see the iron sight through the mount. THROW IT AWAY and get plain old Weaver Rings. I'll bet with the lower scope mount some of your felt recoil will disappear. Limb Saver has the best "slip on" recoil pad, just be aware it will change your length of pull by an inch. If you are not a rifle shooter, the recoil from a 30-06 is sufficient to cause discomfort, especially if you are shooting off the bench.

If you are "mechanically challenged" be very careful fooling with the trigger. The trigger is the last thing in the learning curve. Join this forum and there are many tutorials and articles on trigger work. Both SSS and Rifle Basic make good aftermarket triggers but you may be challenged putting one in. Same with altering the factory trigger.

Savage/Stevens is a good solid basic bolt action platform. Learn how everything works and you will be well served. WARNING you have been exposed to a disease that causes irrational gun and gun parts buying habits.

[GaCop]

I agree with Foxx, ditch the gawd awful see through rings! If you want more ring adjustment options, I recommend the Evolution Gun Works (EGW) base. The Picatinney slots allow you to mount rings in numerous locations along the scope base to suit the length of scope tube.

[JohnnyWadd]

Thanks for all the info guys. I didn't get much time to mess with it last night, but the main thing I noticed was that the trigger pivot pin did not have the e-clip on it like all the diagrams and instructions I found. Does this pin need to be pressed out? Can I press it back in for reassembly? I was trying to do this at the dining room table, so I figured I'd better hold off until I could get it out to the shop under some better light.

[JohnnyWadd]

I believe I figured out what was causing the rough trigger action. the ears that hold the trigger pin seem to be out of alignment. The trigger doesn't sit perfectly parallel inside the ears. The trigger rubs on one side making it difficult to move. What do you think my best option is to fix this? Just sticking an aftermarket trigger in here will have the same problem.

[foxx]

I woud remove the trigger and pry the "ears" open a bit more. If that doesn't work, replace that part.

[JohnnyWadd]

After I disassembled it, I tried to sort of pry it back to alignment but one of the ears actually sits farther forward than the other. I couldn't really align the holes without torquing that entire box and I wasn't sure how I felt about that. What are my options for replacing that entire part?

[JohnnyWadd]

What's the deal with the sharp shooter supply competition trigger? It looks like it replaces everything I need, but do they sell it directly to you or do you have to send them your action? I'm confused. What's their turn around time?

What's the difference between the rifle basix sav-1 and sav-2? Is the sav-1 just the trigger and the sav-2 is the whole assembly?

[pepper savage 111]

The SSS trigger does not include the housing. They do sell directly to customers or you can find their trigger at Bownells, too.

I'm not 100% but I dont think any anftermarket triggers include the housing. But I do know for a fact that the SSS trigger requires the housing to be modified. It's not difficult, but just be aware. Some people get upset when they order it and find out it's not a strictly bolt it/drop in installation.

[pepper savage 111]

Also, check your inbox. I sent you a PM.

[foxx]

SSS Comp trigger uses the original safety (they all do, I guess) and the original trigger bracket and sear. I like them for hunting. I think they are a little better than Rifle Basix Sav-1. THey are also a little more difficult to install and set up, but I still prefer them. I also like supporting Fred and Lisa because they are friends and a small operation.

Rifle Basix Sav-I is also a good hunting trigger. It's basically the same as the regular factory (non Accutrigger ) model that has been filed for true, close alignment and sharp edges and polished smooth. It has adjustments for creep and overtravel just like the original 3 screw factory triggers. If you took an old style trigger to a good gunsmith and asked him to hone the trigger, smooth it up, adjust it etc., that's what they would end up with. Nothing wrong with that. TO install, you simply swap it out for the original trigger and adjust some screws to tune it.

Rifle Basix Sav-2 has a lighter pull weight in the lower range. It uses a couple levers, etc. so it can safely go lower, is more for target shooting. I see no reason for it on a hunting rifle. Sav-2 replaces the factory trigger bracket, but that's just a consequence of their design, not necessarily an advantage over any other.

THey are all good.

[foxx]

You might find one at Numrich gun parts. Let me see if I can pull it up for you.

[foxx]

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/999220A.htm

[JohnnyWadd]

Well, if that's the case, I guess I need to try and bend it back before I try and replace it. Guess I just didn't feel like messing with it. We'll see how it goes. Thanks guys. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Also, the bases for the rings, are they loctited in there? They're a bear to get out, but mainly wondering about installing the new mount. And why does everyone say to use nail polish? I've never heard of that before. I guess it makes sense that it's not as serious as loctite, just wondering what the origin is I guess.

[pepper savage 111]

The bases might have been loctited in there. Seeing as how those aren't factory based. Try to heat the screws a little bit with a lighter. That should help to loosen them up. (Assuming the previous owner used blue, and not red, loctite.)

I've never used nail polish but I do use blue loctite. Never had an issue. Your new base should have hex-head screws so you can get the proper torque on them without worrying about stripping them.

[Bolthead]

Very nice. Big fan of the old classics. I agree with everyone about replacing the mounts and bases. I did go ahead and use see-through rings on my 111 so I could use the iron sights too if needed, but they are a good bit lower. As for the trigger, the stock trigger can be made very friendly with some tender loving care. Once I made sure that everything was as it should be, I replaced the .052 spring with a .040, made from piano wire. This worked well, but I plan to use .045 to bring the adjustment more to the center of the screw. There are some very good articles on the internet and in this forum about what can be done with the stock 3 screw trigger. But, as has been stated previously, make sure that you have a very good understanding of how the trigger works and how to test it before making any changes. One other thing to check is the clearance between the stock and the barrel. If it is free floating, you should be able to easily move a dollar bill the full length from the nut to the end of the stock. On my old 111, there was a raised portion right at the front end of the stock that was just close enough to make contact with the barrel as it got hot, pushing my shots up and to the right. Deep well socket and some sandpaper put a stop to that. Also check the tang where the safety is too, making sure that it has some clearance. One other thing, I use a slip on Limb Saver from Wallyworld that does a great job of making the recoil manageable. I'm not a big guy, but with that thing, I can shoot 180 grain all day, although I prefer the 150s. It even sort of tames my 8mm M48. OK, I have rambled on long enough, just enjoy the "new" rifle, and don't fight the addiction.

Allan

[JohnnyWadd]

Thanks for all the help guys. At the moment, I'm still trying to tweak the trigger bracket enough so the trigger will sit inside it square. When I put the pin through one ear of the bracket and through the trigger, everything is great and moves easily but as soon as I get it through the other ear it twists the trigger so it rubs on both sides. I guess I might try taking the whole bracket out and manhandling it.

I haven't really checked the clearance between the stock and barrel. Is it supposed to be free floating? I wasn't quite sure if it was supposed to be.

The slip on recoil pad is here along with the one piece mount. Everything is mounted up, just still messing with this trigger. Measured it at just over 6 pounds last night. Not great. Guess I at least have a baseline to work from.