UTG scope?

[Russ77]

Have any of you guys had any experience with the UTG leaders scopes? I'm looking at the 3x12x44. Looks like it comes with a lot of features for the money. It's going on an Axis .223 and will just be a range gun so I'm not to worried about durability.
http://leapers.com/prod_detail.php?m...tus=&mtrack=4m

[darkker]

A SFP, mil-dot, with moa adjustments.... Not no, but hell no!
Primary Arms 4-14x. FFP, true mil/mil. 34 mil adjustment range.

[Russ77]

Im pretty new to the world of scopes. What does FLP mean? Can you elaborate more on why it would my be a good choice. I have seen other scopes in the same price range from better known company's but with a lot les features on them. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to need a light up color changing redical. But I thought having the parallax adjustment and zero turret stop would be something that I would want

[darkker]

If you don't know any of those terms, then zero stop is irrelevant to you.
Second focal plane ( SFP), or First focal plane (FFP) scopes have some important differences. SFP has the reticle (cross hairs) always stay the same size when you zoom. But relative to the target, it changes size. This means you can't use your mil-dot reticle to measure distances except at one magnification, typically Max. It is also a dumb idea to have a mil-dot reticle, when your turrets don't adjust in mil, but moa. Unless you like packing a conversion formula/calculator around with you...

FFP Scopes have the reticle grow and shrink with scope magnification. So relative to the target it is always the same size. So you can dial a correction at any magnification, not be trapped at full power. Match the reticle to the turrets. If you have a mil-dot reticle, your turrets better be .1mil adjustments.

[Russ77]

I see. After dong some reading that makes a lot of sense. I went to the primary arms website, the 4x14x looks like a great scope for the money. This is my first rifle so it will be a learning tool for me. As I'm doing more research on rifle optics I am finding out that for the most part you get what you pay for.

[243LPR]

Buy the best you can afford,cry once.

[darkker]

The really unfortunate part is that it gets you to the increase of spending squared, gets you the square root in quality.

The scope that is a smoking deal for money spent is the Weaver #800363. It used to be under $700, but had glass/coatings of most $1200 scopes.

When the time came for another testing show down, the SWFA 3-15 and that PA got tested. I posted about the showdown a year or two ago. That Primary Arms scope flat embarrassed the SWFA out past 1,000 yards.

[earl39]

Lightning rod firmly planted.......... I agree with darkker......pass on the leapers scope. If you want a better cheap scope go bushnell or burris. Want to go up from there then the Weaver is a good choice. Above that about a draw between Sightron SIII and Leopold. Next up would be Nightforce and IOR Valdada then top it off with a March. There are others mixed in there but that takes you from $150 or so to excess of $3000.

As darkker said moa/moa or mil/mil. don't mix them up if you are doing any adjusting after sighting in because it will just cause a major migraine and confusion with anyone that is trying to help you.

Remember cheap is cheap. Pay once cry once......... That is experience talking

[Russ77]

The scope I was very impressed with is the vortex viper 3x9x40. It's the next step up in the price range but I really liked it. Have you guys had any experience with these scopes?

[Russ77]

FFP vipers are going to be out of budget for me. Is being able to range your target through the scope the only benefit of a first focal plane??

[earl39]

Is being able to range your target through the scope the only benefit of a first focal plane??

Honestly that is about it. It also gives the illusion that the crosshair is covering more of the target as power is increased. It covers the same amount but the illusion is there.
Vortex vipers are decent scopes and when you have problems with them they do back the warranty with excellent customer service. I really prefer not to have to use a warranty but have a Sightron Big Sky that needs to go back so any company can produce a bad scope.

[darkker]

Adjustment amount also.
Lets assume for a moment that the SFP scope is matched mil/mil. If you are NOT zoomed to max, and your shot misses. If you saw that you were 1 mil low, you can't adjust 1 mil and be correct. The turrets and reticle ONLY match at one magnification, on a SFP scope.

The PA 4-14X FFP mil/mil is far better glass than that particular Vortex; and only costs $239 clams.

[earl39]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That pesky math problem again^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Russ77]

I think I am going to go with the PA 4x14x. Also really impressed with the sfwa but I don't like the fixed power on them.I went out today with a friend who has a U.S. Optics on his AR-15. Supper nice scope but way above my budget

[foxx]

^^^^^^^^Yep, I have a few of the PA 4-14's and have had a few fixed SWFA SS's. Though I am not happy about it, I agree with Darkker. :)

[stomp442]

Who uses the mildots to range targets in this day and age of laser range finders? Also, who uses the mil dots for hold over when you can simply dial into your range using the turrets? I have a few mil dot scopes and they are handy for holding wind and that's all I use them for. Mil/Mil or MOA or 1/4" makes no difference as long as you hit your target when your cross hair is on it. I understand the use of mils and mil dots in a battle field type scenario but for target shooting or hunting not at all. I feel like scopes have gotten way to complicated for the average individual or even long range hunter. Give me a fine duplex cross hair and a MOA turret and color me happy.

As far ad the leapers UTG scope goes don't waste your money. I bought one for a .22 one time and it wouldn't even hold zero on that.

[yobuck]

Dr thunder who just returned from a long range shooting class said more than im sure he realized at this point when he said
they wanted him to spot his own hits. So long as you see the hit, it matters not what focal plane the scope is especially while hunting.
Just hold where you saw the bullet hit and shoot. It just cant get any easier. His coach was very profiecent in dialing because he knew
how to dial and not because he had any particular type scope.

[Russ77]

Finally made my mind up on a scope. Next question. Sunshade, do most of you use them?

[yobuck]

Finally made my mind up on a scope. Next question. Sunshade, do most of you use them?

Some guys never take them off and some guys never put them on.
As for me, i always want the sun behind me when im hunting long range.
When it swings around toward front, i move to another location.
And i prefer any type of dots over a plain cross hair or duplex for hunting also.
Others can dial the close misses if they prefer, but i prefer holding and any dot system helps with that.
Weve all been known to do dumb things, and they tend to become more frequent when we get excited.
Ive sat behind experienced hunters and watched them turn the dial the wrong way while looking into the scope.
Failure isnt always a bad thing.

[earl39]

Another thing to think about is if you are not used to a cluttered scope then even mildots can give you fits. My SIL gave me back a mildot scope i gave him because he missed deer with it. Turns out his eye was confused by the dots and was drifting to different dots everytime he got in a hurry. Nothing wrong with the scope or the weapon just his eye was not used to the extra dots and whichever one it focused on first was where it stayed. I swapped scopes with him and he has no problems killing deer now and i put it on my 338-06 and no problems with the scope. I can use a mildot but like an moa retical. Math is a little easier for me that way.

Sunshades, i have one on one target rifle and not on the other and none of my hunting rifles. I think it just depends on what you think you want and need. Most good scopes come with one now so it is not an extra you have to worry with.

[Russ77]

There are 3 redicals that you can choose from. I'm not sure witch one to get. Probably the cross hairs. The others are cool and I'm sure they are useful for hunting but i will just be using it for target shooting

[Robinhood]

I saw where you made a choice, do you mind telling us what it is. So many new gun owners (first time scope buyers) are overwhelmed be the cost of a decent scope. So they purchase one withing their budget. Then they become disenfranchised with the whole process due to the perceived accuracy issues when it really boils down to their decision on a scope. It would be better to have a scope that will maintain zero and shoot less than to have on that moves 1/2" or more every time you fire it making good groups impossible. If you are stuck on inexpensive I hope you are buying one with an impeccable warranty history. PA and vortex you mentioned have the good warranty.

[Russ77]

I'm going with the PA 4x14x just need to pick a redical

[Robinhood]

There should be some good advice on a RETICLE on this forum. Several of the top posters are using them.

[Russ77]

Ordered my scope today. The primary arms was a little out of my price range but they have some on eBay that are blemish scopes. They are scopes that came in with a scratch on them or some other imperfection that does not interfere with the performance in any way for 199.00 shipped with the HUD ACSS. I may be more excited about getting this then I was my rifle. A very big thanks going out to Darkker for steering me in the right direction. I think it is going to be a great scope for me. Now it's time to get rings and a mount