Reply With QuoteNew shellholder? Maybe knock the .002 off and only use it with these dies.
Ok, I give up....hopefully someone can figure this out or point out what I'm missing here.
It seems all the sudden that I the shoulders on my 22-250AI loads aren't getting bumped back at all when I FL size them. Measuring my dummy round that was used to set the headspace and throat the chamber way back when with the chamber gauge Fred made me, I get 1.530".
My newly reloaded ammo (Norma brass) is all measuring 1.532".
My fired brass (from above reloads) is all measuring 1.530" to 1.532"
What got me looking at all this was the fact that every round I fired today required a substantial amount of force to get the bolt closed. At first I figured the bullets were just seated a little long and were jamming into the rifling, but upon returning home that proved not to be the case. Even setting the bullets 0.020" deeper didn't lesson the hard bolt closing and the bullets aren't making contact with the rifling in the chamber gauge made with the same reamer that cut the barrel chamber.
The only thing that has changed is the press I'm using. Same dies and shell holder as I have always used, and the die is set so the ram bottoms out on the die as it should, but as the numbers above indicate the sizing die doesn't seem to be bumping the shoulder back 0.002" like it should. What's even stranger is that on about 1/3 my fired cases the shoulder is one or two thousandths shorter than it was when it was loaded.
The only rational explanation I can come up with is spring back in the brass after resizing.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
New shellholder? Maybe knock the .002 off and only use it with these dies.
Second sentence, last paragraph - same shell holder as I've always used.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
Just ran a few pieces of newer Winchester brass through my FL sizer and I'm getting the same 1.532" with it as I am with the older Norma brass.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
okay lets blame the brass. Anneal a couple run em through the die. My guess is your still going to be a little pushed out. New ram tighter tolerance doesn't seem to far off that you might have to make a slight adjustment on one end or the other.
My best guess either the expander is pulling the shoulders forward or you're getting a lot of spring back, that is if in fact the shoulder bump is the issue.Originally Posted by J. Baker
Try pulling the expander then FL size a few sticks and measure the bump. If they're still too long run them in two or three times again (sans expander) pausing at the top of the stroke a few seconds each time.
Try those two things first, we'll go from there.
Bill
Each morning eat a live green toad, it will be the worst thing you'll have face all day.
Are you lubing the necks If not it could be what Bill says. Have you tried just turning the die down another 1/4 to 1/2 turn and letting it cam over a little bit.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world. Those who can do math and those who can't
Take the expander button out of the sizing die and size a few cases. If they measure .002 of bump after that, then the expander button is pulling the shoulders back out.
Lee lube (water based and easy to clean up) or a dry lube in the necks might help, but I would avoid using any sticky oily lubes.
The best thing you can do is to convert to an expander-less setup (Lee collet dies, Redding S Type).
42
Getting the same with both the Winchester and Norma brass. Pulling the expander didn't make a difference, and yes I lube the necks. No cam-over with the Lee Classic Turret press as it has a positive stop on the linage arms that puts the brakes on about 10 degrees before vertical. Gonna have to dig my other press out and set it up tomorrow to see if that makes a difference. If not I'm going to chalk it up as work hardened brass that's taken a set and start chucking the one's that won't chamber easily after being sized. Most all of it is 8-11 years old after all, but the Winchester varies from 1-3 loadings on it and the Norma has maybe 10-12.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
I have been experiencing the very same issue with some of my reloads for the .308W. Full length sized in Hornady Custom dies, inside of case necks brushed clean and lightly lubed. Expander ball polished like chrome. Don't feel much resistance when pulling it through the downstroke so if it is pulling on the necks it can't be much. I would think anealing would make it that much more easier to pull the shoulder out as the brass would be more malleable. However, after firing, the fired case will easily chamber. Oh and used a Hornady OAL gauge to insure the bullets were seated .018" short of the lands. This has perplexed me for some time.
since you went from a cam over press to a pos stop you may have to have a few thousands taken off the bottom of the die or use your other press to size...if you dont anneal you should that is part of the spring back issue...and 10-12 loads on norma brass is not many loads
My bet is the press. Lee presses are notorious known to have short travel stops preventing the ram from dwelling on top dead center. This may seem like it would'nt make any difference , but it does. I modified my Lee classic turret press by milling clearance in the toggle for the links to swing all the way to vertical. This will allow the ram to go to full available travel, and dwell. Without the mod, it will end up .025" short on total travel.
In this photo, the stop blocks on the links bottom out on the toggle preventing full swing.
In this photo the toggle has been milled out for clearance allowing the ram to swing to full stroke.
You might also notice that I've added a clamp system for portability. This makes it handy for range use.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
I think my press my have to pay you a visit this week Fred.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
Yep, the press is the culprit. Just ran a few cases through my other press and they're coming out in two groups, those in the 1.530-32" range (most are 1.531"), and about 1 in 3 that are in the 1.528-29" range. The longer one's I suspect may be developing a doughnut which is affecting the measurement, so once I'm done sizing and sorting everything I'll turn the necks of a few and see if that makes a difference. If not I know which ones to toss in the recycle bin.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
Fred that was a good call to mill that metal away so the darn thing can cam all the way. One other thing I do with brass that I didn't anneal yet is a five count at top dead center then lower the ram. It makes a difference. I also size and rotate 180 degrees and resize again with brass that is hard.
Willing to give back for what the sport has done for me!
I think he meant that you grind or sand .002 off the shell holder to reduce the headspace when sizing the case. Randy
Last edited by Rewinder; 07-05-2015 at 11:09 PM. Reason: more info
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