Reply With QuoteAwesome... How big would you estimate the rock to be? width & height?
We went out last weekend and again yesterday to our REALLY long range spot. This is an area where shot distance is pretty much limited by cartridge choice and how long you can stay stable after going subsonic. My buddy's Leica 1600 range finder can't come close to keeping up out here. All of the ranging is done with a Vectronix Terrapin which will give ranges to 22-2400 yards in bright sun, well past 3000 yards in overcast conditions, and over 4000 yards under ideal conditions. For the mid range stuff (under 1400 yards) I run the 284 Striker or the 260 pistol. Beyond that is when I need to actually dig out the rifles.
The last two trips out we've been shooting in the 2000- 2400 yard range. I tried my 284 Striker at that 2368 yards, but I needed 143.6 MOA of adjustment. Unfortunately my scope just didn't have that much left even after running the Mk 4 at half power, maxing out the turrets, and using all of the hold over in the reticle. I sure did try though! LOL
Next up was the 338 Edge with the 300 gr OTMs at 2890 fps. Full disclosure on this one, it's not a Savage. This rifle is a Jim Borden switch barrel built off of a Borden BRL action. So the Edge needed 97.6 MOA to get to 2368. I dialed the 92 MOA I had in the scope and held 5.5 in the reticle. This one we actually got video of. It took about 3 shots to get dialed in but we were consistently hitting within a few inches of the target rock. The time of flight is over 4 seconds!! The target is the rock 2 MILs right and .5 MIL up from center.
http://youtu.be/7DaUHSs_u3g
I ran the 375 BME at the same spot that day but the camera battery was dead at that point. The BME took 98.3 MOA to get a 350 grain Match King to that range. I also tried the BME at the same target from 2852 yards but never got closer that 1 MOA to the rock the wind had changed by then.
We went out yesterday and took a few guys who had never shot past 300 yards up to that spot yesterday to have them try at 2058 yards. Everybody got within 1.5 MOA of the target after we dialed the corrections for them.
The biggest problem now is that we need bigger guns. The 338 Edge and BME just aren't keeping up at this range! I have a 338/408 CheyTac improved reamer sitting on my bench. I'm just waiting on all of the parts to come in to finish it. Then the 3000 yard rocks will be in trouble!
Andrew
Awesome... How big would you estimate the rock to be? width & height?
The rock is a pretty big target. It's about .5 MIL by .3 MIL at 2368 yards. So that's roughly 42" x 35" at that range. That's not benchrest accuracy but it wasn't bad for the first trip to that range. We're working on building a more stable portable bench to shoot off of and we'll likely switch to using a front rest instead of bipods at this range.
We have a 34" x 38" piece of AR plate that we shoot at. We are in the flat land so we don't have the hill to indicate hits like you do with the rock. If we miss, then we don't know were it hit and ammo was wasted.. I was just curious about the size as compared to our target.. I would love to shoot some terrain like you guys are someday...
I'd love to try some shooting at those ranges. The farthest I can shoot around here is 1200 yards and that's a two hour drive away. The farthest I ever shot in Scout Sniper School was 1000 yards.
Thats pretty good shooting Andrew. Thats actually not a real big target for that distance.Originally Posted by yorketransport
And your right in your assesment of your cartridges for those distances.
Im not so sure as i wouldnt go larger than a 338 for what your contemplating.
My 338 was built by Bruce Baer and is what he calls the 338 big baer. He also uses that case
for a 375 version and more recently a 35 cal version. Im using 137 gr h50bmg with a 300 gr and
velocity is about 3200 fps. According to Bruce some are using 139/140 gr with their guns.
Of coarse that can vary from gun to gun. Your case should be very similar as for capacity.
The 35 cal version is using a heavier bullet i believe of about 325 gr. Cutting Edge is producing the bullets for it.
The one guy ive met having one claims the same velocity as me. He didnt offer to shoot the gun when i met him at a nice lookout.
Maybe the plrf 10 he had wouldnt range that far lol.
My barrel is a 1 in 10 twist 1/250 and is 34" with a glue in bedding block. The gun weighs about 35#.
My barrel wont handle 300 gr cutting edge bullets, but both SMK and Berger very well.
My scope is the Nightforce 8x32 nxs with the npr1 reticle.
That scope has less elevation adjustment than the 5.5x22 nxs. So even with my cartridge, i can only
dial to about a mile. Of coarse i could add more taper or use the reticle also. But frankly for me, thats all im interested in doing as for distance.
Even that is further than most of the places we hunt although thats by choice also.
As for the bench, all long rangers in PA shoot from benches. And yes most of us know how to shoot without them lol.
We frankly have over many years perfected the fully adjustable portable bench to be as good as it gets in both light and heavy versions.
That includes the custom rests many of us use for hunting. An animal simply cannot run away from us regardless how fast, what direction,
or how far, so that when it stops were ready (right now) with a follow up shot. Try that from prone with a bipod or even bench/ bipod.
Mind you now im talking shooting from and into mountain sides and not flat land antelope type territory. Laying prone, facing downhill, on a steep hillside
and having an animal run uphill and to the right or left is an impossible situation for good follow up shots.
If your interested i could send you pictures of our setup that would possibly furnish you with ideas. I can also supply you with the name
of a guy who builds excellant benches and the rests i mentioned. The rest is a seperate thing that is optional according to individual opinion.
Also consider if you prefer kneeling, sitting, or standing next to the bench. The higher it is the more movement there will be without bracing.
That said the older we get the nicer it is to shoot standing, and especially with the heavy hitters. With an extra set of legs you could do it anyway you wish.
I would reccomend you talk with Bruce Baer and Dan Smitco at Cutting Edge if for no other reason than to pick brains before deciding on this.
Mark King would be another worth talking with for sure. But he might try to talk you into a 50. Bruce on the other hand would try to talk you out of it.
Great minds must think alike Yobuck! My 338/408 reamer is very similar to the 338 Big Baer except for the neck and throat dimensions. I talked to Joel Russo about the project while I was planning it since I knew he has had a lot of experience with the 408 wildcats. In fact he's going to build a stock for me for my Chey Tac pistol project. It's one of his rear grip pistol stocks made out of bubinga wood, set up for a BAT CT action. Should be pretty cool when it's done. Joel gave me a ton of info on the 338 Big Baer as well as the 35 and 375 versions. Much like you he recommended just sticking with the tried and true 300gr bergers and sierras in the 338 version.
I thought about going the 50 BMG route. I had one years ago that I sold to somebody who made me the right offer on the right day and I've missed it ever since. A friend of mine runs the local fifty caliber bench rest matches and has been trying to get me to buy another big 50. That just seems like too much of a good thing though.
If you get a chance, I'd love to see a picture of you bench set up. I picked up a piece of 4'x6'x 1.5" oak butcher block today for a $50 and I thought that it would make the perfect bench top for a reasonably heavy but still portable bench. I'd love to know what's working for you though.
i'm interested as well yobuck!
nice shooting, that's quite a range to shoot. what kind of magnification you using?
The scopes are an 8-25x Mk4, 5.5-22x night force, and an 8-32x SIII. I usually shoot on about 12-14 power. It's rare to find a day with conditions perfect enough to allow higher magnification.
Be carefull of the source of information when considering these type guns. The good builders usually dont have or need mouthpieces.
Make sure you go directly to the source and not listen to people like me for example. lol
As for the benches, first when i say we that covers lots of people in PA and not just me.
I didnt initiate the design but i have capitilized on it for our use. And ive also made what i consider improvments again for our particular use.
There is no one size fits all for all applications. Heavy, is not nessarily also solid. The way its built is what makes it solid.
The butcher block top might make it attractive and for sure heavier, but thats about all the benefit it will offer.
A single layer plywood top is all thats really necessary for stability if the right stuff is under it.
I have one that weighs less than some of the guns we put on it at just about 20#.
I have another where each leg weighs almost that much.
When i get to where they are ill take pictures and attempt to post them.
you mention pa but i see florida as well...i am in pa myself..
Ever hear the term " SNOWBIRD".
FROGGY
See profile for fire arms
Do it today there maybe no tomorrow
Yep im a snowbird. I lived in the philly suberbs for 64 years before moving to FL. which is now my residence.
But i go to our camp in N C PA for from 4 to 6 months each year. That way i get to enjoy the smell of woodsmoke,
feed the humming birds, see some snow, and get to (actually) shoot some real distance at real hills.
Yobuck I envy you, want to go down to Fla. I'm in central Ct. 63 years old and getting crippled from arthritis from too many back surgeries due to injury fighting fires here for 20 years. Only thing that stops me is I'm the care giver for my 92year old mother that and real estate market is dead around here.
Hopefully some day.
FROGGY
See profile for fire arms
Do it today there maybe no tomorrow
Well maybe mom would be happier in FL also. I was in a publix market about a week ago getting checked out.
There was an elderly black man bagging groceries and we got talking. I finally asked him his age due to what he was saying.
He told me he would be 97 in July. I looked at the checkout girl and she nodded yes.
For sure he wont be dying as a result of slipping on ice as several of my friends have.
As for real estate its pretty flat in most places. At 63 are you really going to wait for that to change?
You can buy very nice houses here for a song compared to a few years back. Many are bank owned and are being bought up by flippers.
So if you sell for a song and buy for a song whats the difference? What was was, and probably wont ever be again in your lifetime.
Bagging groceries at publix a few days a week might be an attractive alternative. Lots of classy looking ladies in tennis outfits and they even offer health insurance lol.
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