Hello, I am new to this forum, but have used it as a resource for years.
My current long range gun is a Savage 111 action with a Criterion 28” (1:8”) chambered in 6.5-284. The barrel is getting near the end of its life and I am considering changing to a different cartridge, either a hotter 6.5mm or stepping up to a 7mm. I have been reloading for about 5 years, although I am not a guru by any means. I would prefer a cartridge that I can order a pre-fit barrel for, go/no gauges, reloading dies and take off, but i am willing to put in the extra work, if needed.
If I stick with a 6.5mm cartridge, I will likely go to a faster twist that would stabilize the 150+ grain bullets, so 1:7” or 1:7.5” and be able to drive them at 2900+ FPS. The main thing would be to improve on the 6.5-284 performance. Primary purpose would be target shooting from 0-1760 yards. Barrel life is a small concern, but not a deal breaker.
On the 7mm side, I would need to be able to drive the heavier VLD style bullets at respectable speeds.
Here are some that I’ve been looking at:
6.5 Saum
6.5 PRC
7mm WSM
7mm Saum
7mm-300WM
284 Win (straight 284, could use my current Lapua 6.5-284 brass!)
28 Nosler?
What else am I missing and what makes the most sense?
I've been thinking of necking down a 7mm rem mag to 6.5mm and sending it to shilen to have a custom barrel bored and reamed. I know shilen will make customs like that just cant decide if I really want to do it.Originally Posted by Stannis Boratheon
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Criterion list of 6.5 cartridges, "6.5 x 47 Lapua, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 X 284 Norma, 6.5 x 55 Swed. Match, 260 Rem, 260 Rem Match, 260 A.I., 260 A.I. Match, 6.5-06 Match 6.5 SAUM (large shank only), 6.5 SAUM GAP S4 (large shank only)" and Shilen, "6.5 PRC, 6.5 IHMSA, 6.5 X 55, 6.5-300 Ultra, 6.5-65 RWS, 6.5 Grendel, 26 Nosler, 260 Rem., 6.5 Rem., Mag., 264 Win. Mag., 6.5 X 300 Wby. Mag., 6.5 WSM, 6.5-06, 6.5mm-06 Imp (tight neck), 6.5 WSM (.287″), 6.5 X 47 Lapua(USA), 6.5 x 47 Lapua, 6.5 X 284 Win, 6.5 X 284 Norma, 6.5 X 284 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5 PRC"
Based on what you mentioned above, what about a .264 Win Mag?
Welcome to the forum, let's get some nonsense marketing wank cleared up for you.
Twist - Despite marketers hoping no one will actually do some basic math, you need NEITHER a hotrod cartridge, not a faster twist to properly stabilize the 150gr SMK with it's 1.480" length.
Fired from sedate Creedmoor velocities in a factory twist, you are fully stabilized and getting every drop of potential BC from that bullet.
MV * 720 ÷ twist =RPM. So for the Creedmoor 2400 *720 ÷ 8 = 216,000RPM. Remembering that while velocity decays quite rapidly, rotational decay is extremely slow. This means that as the bullet slows during travel, the RPM relative to it's velocity has increased; meaning more rotational stability. Buy what you want to buy, but don't do it because a schmuck at the ad company said you had to.
Bullets - Again but what you want to buy, but don't think it takes magic. I've been shooting to a mile with 140gr CC's in a couple Creedmoor's, and 175s in a 308 for many years now. As long as you have a scope you can dial, and know your drops; it's not that difficult. Since the military paid Sierra to look into creating the 175 SMK( because apparently simply reading McCoy's book was to difficult) it's been known that as long as you stay with a 9° tail angle and don't get silly with the Center of Gravity/Center of Pressure; any bullet will safely cross the trans-sonic region with the pointy end aimed the correct direction. Many of the various extremely long or low drag bullets on the market have a CG/CP issue. So while they fly like a hot-dam supersonic, they do weird things when crossing. Keep that in mind when choosing your poison.
Cheers
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
I appreciate the feedback regarding twist rate and stability. Makes sense to me. I have had success with the 147 ELDMs out to 1350 yards with my current 1:8 twist (haven’t had a chance to take it further than that). Following the 147s up with 140 Berger VLDs, I was making first round hits without making any elevation or wind age adjustments. I guess you get back to the MV vs BC tradeoff between those two bullets.
In regards to the 6.5 SAUM, as mentioned above, Criterion is offering this chambering on a large shank only. I wonder what the reasoning is. I’ve seen plenty of other magnums built on a small shank. This one has me scratching my head...
If the 6.5 SAUM looks feasible, I will probably go that route, just to try something new. If not, I’ll probably be sticking with the -284.
Again, I appreciate the advise!
Stick with a 6.5x284, its easily capable 1 mile gun, if your planning to use these new 6 5 bullets in the 150ish range ideally 7.5 would do keep in mind it won't shoot lighter bullets, Guy named Greyfox has the most comprehensive knowledge on 6 5x284 over at Longerange Hunter forum, moving to all other options besides 7mm is just different variations on a 6.5x284, you should be able to get velocities 2950 easy to 3050fps fire your brass life will be short, Another thing is 6.5x284, you don't have to anneal brass easy to get and 100's of inner web post on load development in fact you can just use proven data and start your challenge and or hunt.
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The 6.5-284 is a fantastic cartridge and more than capable of what you are trying to do. It is also very hard to beat ballistically, even by stepping up to the larger 7mm. You really need the case capacity to push the heavy 180 -195s at a good enough speed to make it worth your while and that comes with a bigger case which means more powder, more recoil, more barrel wear and more cost. There are some fantastic 7mm cartridges out there and if you mentioned hunting I would definitely say step up in caliber but since you only mention target shooting I would stick with the 6.5-284 and take the money you would have spent on changing calibers and put it into better optics.
Who knows, I had a factory WSM that was built prior to the large shank being created.... Lots of curious stuff has slipped outta Savage.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
6.5 PRC Some don't like Hornady brass.
6.5 RSAUM
284 winchester
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I love hornady brass.. my top 3 favorites in order are 1) starline, 2)hornady 3) lake city. Any of those can be prepped and sorted to have match tolerance brass. May take a tad more effort than overpaying for a batch of lapua or alpha munitions but heck, at the price I can buy twice as much or more of those 3 brands than I can of lapua or alpha. I also think something has went down in lapua production. There have been alot of reports of lapua failing on 2nd load. I personally had 10 test nodes in 308 using lapua, none of them near max node and 3 of the necks cracked.. dont know it was a bad run but a $1 a case it sure as hell better get me several reloads.
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It might be well worth the price of a plane ticket just to watch as you do that at a mile with those guns.
Getting it there is one thing, hitting something is another. lol
Drive band has much more influence over stability and accuracy than twist ratio:)
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I'm usually here, unless winter. I typically head to AZ in the winter for a brief family stay and to meet up with some forum members. We've done it in both places, typically use a 55-gal drum lid. Certainly not a 10-for-10 affair, but as long as you aren't fighting terrible winds, or suffering a poor spotter, it isn't that difficult. If you remember the FFP thread we talked in, you can see there is no shortage of space to get there. Have a few laughs, do some shooting, if your not inclined I'll have a few drinks for you...
Of if you need a better reason to come west: Either the annual spring Sniper's Hide challange isn't far from here, or stop by and hit up the Long Range Shooters of Utah. They have several folks who've hit the milk jug at a mile with 308's. You too can earn a patch, video, and name on the wall O fame. such as here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9n9r3Now7w
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
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