Is there a 17 centerfire cartridge that can be safely and accurately loaded down to 3000or less? I want to get rid of the ground squirrels, and 22 ammo availability and price is still a joke in this area. It would have to be one usable with the 223 bolt head. Not SUPER concerned if it has to be single fed, but would prefer it if it could be mag fed.
17 rimfire ammo is running .10 to .20 a round. I can reload for less than that.
Have you looked into the 17 Rem Fireball? Looks like starting loads put you right around 3300fps with 20gr bullets. Whats wrong with the standard .223 for ground squirrels?
edit to add:
Looking at Bergers load data they are showing 3063fps with a starting load 15.5gr of Varget and their 30gr bullet for the 17 Fireball.
17 Hornet Imp
There are 3 kinds of people in this world. Those who can do math and those who can't
The Hornet case will not work off a .378 bolt head.
I'd prefer not to use the 223 due to the loud report, and I want the very light 17 caliber bullets to insure fragmentation in case of a miss.
I was hoping to avoid going rimfire for cost and availability issues. My shots range from near point blank to sometimes over 100ys, so flat shooting is helpful.
Depending on your openness to wildcats you could use the 22 tcm. Coupled with the light varmint bullets available that would make a nice little critter getter round. If you have your heart set on 17 caliber, there are a few people who have necked the 22 tcm brass down to 17 caliber. I am not certain what velocities you would be getting, but around 3000 fps seems reasonable.
Wow that is a stubby little sucker. Will have to research it. I'm sure a wildcat (barrel, dies, brass etc. ) will end up costing as much as a new rifle like a Savage 25.
Easily, plus a substantial wait im sure.
At the end of the day ,you will have more money invested in a .17 centerfire than what it costs for .17 HMR ammo. You'll spend lots of dollars to save a few cents.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
Instead of a new barrel, dies and brass, why not just go with reduced loads in the 223 Rem?
Hodgdon shows loads for the 55gr FMJ at just over 1000fps; about that of sub 22LR.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
That's why I was hoping for a ready made caliber to load down sufficiently to the 2500-3000fps. I fully realize cost wise it's a wash, but availability is the real problem here. I still have yet to see rimfire ammo in stores. There has been some coming, but guys sit there at 5AM waiting for them to open and buy it all. I'm sure those are the creeps selling it for $45-50 for a 500 round pak.
I have always loved rimfire but I have no qualms with loading centerfire as a replacement. Part of the problem is the manuals all assume folks want the most velocity possible, so starting loads are not for folks like me. Yes, I realize less powder in some loads can cause severe pressure spikes, thus why I posted my question. I focused on the 17 partly due to very light weight bullets and their very frangible nature.
Yea I have tried those, but accuracy on most loads was pretty bad. I would be interested if anyone has come up with a combo there that proved real accurate. My longest shots usually run 75-100yds, with most well short of that.
Extra centerfire practice would be nice too.
Hmm, not sure if I tried Trail Boss though. I do have a can of that. At 4gr per load that would go a long way.
Would still prefer 17 caliber I think.
Have you looked at the Barnes Varmint grenades for the .223 I have never used them personally but I remember watching videos of those bullets coming apart after hitting a grape. No need to worry about ricochets with that kind of frangibility and could probably be loaded down quite nicely.
Another option that nobody here has mentioned is the .204 Ruger. While I haven't looked into the reloading data on it I'm sure you can load it down to about 3000fps. Although I'm wondering why you'd want to download a light varmint bullet; typically varmint bullets are designed for fragmentation and rapid disintegration on impact at high velocity, plus velocity means a flatter shooting projectile. It's a factory loaded round with fairly available brass and pills and it's about halfway between the .17's and the .223's. Just adding one more piece to an already convoluted discussion
I don't need 3600-4000 fps and the report, I want to keep low. I am sure the 2500-3000fps will be enough for bullet function, especially considering my ranges. I am not really concerned with the bullet breaking apart inside the ground squirrel (the intended target) since at those speeds it will do the job easily. I am more concerned about ricochet if I miss.
My 22LR does the job even at 75yds but they tend to run back into their holes. Most of my shots would easily be done by an 17 HM2 but that ammo is worse to find than 22 LR.
2000-3000 will do the job nicely, and the smaller bore will keep the report down. Neighbors are a couple hundred yards away, and full loads of 223 or 20 or even 17 calibers get pretty loud. That's one reason I don't shoot the WMR as much. The report is pretty loud.
Sound may still be an issue. My 17HMR is pretty darn loud. Does the job though
Ed Bell, PA Deer Hunter & NRA Life Member ~ “The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.”~
There was a 17 built on the 357 Sig round that came in at about 3000, but if I recall, it cost a bunch for the forming dies since there were 7 steps to forming. Seems like it was Real Guns that put it together, and had about 7 pages of info on the build. Cute little round, but not very easy to build.
Originally Posted by keeki
Guess it doesn't really matter. If ya cant afford $15, you won't be buying much anyways
Look into Trail Boss.
You can load down to near subsonic wit it and standard cartridges whether they are .17 cal or .223 caliber.
Originally Posted by sharpshooter
That is how I felt after building my 17BR. But the 30 grain bullets at 4000fps was nice.
I see your on the central coast. I have killed thousands of ground squirrels with 22lr. If your worried about your neighbors 22lr is tough to beat. I don't think my 17BR was any quieter the the 17HMR I replaced it with.
Last edited by missed; 05-29-2015 at 09:37 PM.
Except that I would also need to buy a rifle chambered for a 17 rimfire cartridge as well. So it would be pretty much a wash. Maybe cheaper to build if I find a reasonably priced barrel, dies, and brass.
Don't know if they have in the past, but Savage does not currently offer a 17 centerfire, in any rifle.
I emailed Accurate Arms about reduced velocity loads in the 17 Fireball with AA5744 and this is what they wrote back. I included their disclaimer since I am re-posting their suggested load data.
Their starting load is just a tad up from the HMR and below the WSM. No idea what accuracy will be like. At least now I know it's doable, without going to a wildcat round, so I will be keeping my eyes open for parts in the future.
Here is the requested load data that will work for you.
Caliber: .17 Remington-Fireball.
Case Volume: ca 1.331cc (ca 20.5 grain of H2O)
Barrel length: 24”
Powder: Accurate – 5744®.
Bullet weight: 20 grains.
Start load: 10.0 grains (ca 2770 Fps)
Mid load: 14.0 grains (ca 3678 Fps)
NOTES:
It’ important to note that SAFETY is our prime concern therefore we strongly recommend.
1. TO ALWAYS BEGIN LOADING AT THE RECOMMENDED MINIMUM “START” LOAD and develop loads in 2% increments towards the MAXIMUM load.
2. CAUTION: Beware of double charging if the loading density is below 50% of the available volume.
Examples:
Ř Most Handgun caliber/powder combinations as well as
Ř A-5744 with reduced loads for rifles.
3. If possible, measure the velocity and correlate with our data.
Yea I have killed about 300-400 here so far between my 22LR and my WMR. Of course the WMR make a pretty loud report, so it was only for long range stuff with good solid backgrounds. Along with report is the desire for bullet fragmentation, AND ammo availability. I just cannot find it here, and do not have the option of the sunrise line waits to try to get it.
I will in the meantime experiment with AA5744 and Trail Boss in the 223 and see what happens there. I THINK I still have some 45gr Vmaxes that were designed for Hornets. Might try those. Also think I still have some Barnes Varmint Grenades to try also.
Well I looked. I have 35, 40, and 45gr Vmax out there but the Varmint Grenades were 6mm, so that doesn't help.
Does Trail Boss smoke? How about AA5744, anyone ever use that?
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