Next up............6.5 WSM!

[Hotolds442]

As if I don't have enough projects going on right now, it's time for another wildcat. The 6x55 is nearly complete, with just a couple of powders to try. The 243AI is shooting groups in the .2's so no need to mess with it, and I'm still waiting on some more brass for the 22/6.8 so there's nothing going on with it. Batter up!

I picked up an unfired 28" 8 twist small shank X Caliber varmint contour barrel chambered in 6.5 WSM from Scope Eye, chambered by Jim at Apache Gun Works, and an unfired left hand Model 11 action to start the build. While I wait for the rest of the parts to show up, I'll start working on case prep and getting everything set up to load some rounds.

I picked up 3 different lots of 270 WSM brass from three different sources, 2 have arrived. A total of 106 rounds of once-fired brass ready for prep. I started out by tumbling everything, and then ran them through a set of Lee 6.5/300 WSM dies found at Midway to neck the brass down to 6.5 caliber. 6 rounds either split at the neck, or the shoulder leaving me with an even 100 rounds. Next up was the annealing process, simple propane torch, DeWalt cordless drill, and a K&M case holder. Once the necks were all annealed and dried out from the water quench, I cleaned them again with 0000 steel wool and then off to the case trimmer. I trimmed all of the cases to 2.100" (I think) and cleaned up the necks. I needed to order a new pilot and expander for my K&M in 6.5mm, and when it arrived, I turned all of the necks to .293 to make sure there were no issues with the .298 neck of the chamber.
Once the cases were all prepped, I checked the protrusion in the barrel of each round, and since they were all satisfactory I began loading up some starting loads.
This is where all the fun began. I attempted to prime all of the prepped cases, but none of the rounds would fit into my Lee hand primer. I had to take a Dremel drum sander to open up the jaws of the priming tool to allow the rebated rim WSM cases to enter into the shellholder. That was a pain I wasn't expecting to have to deal with.
Once I had everything primed, it was time to weigh out some powder and seat some bullets. I selected three powders for the first round, H4350, H-1000, and MagPro. I also chose two different bullets, the 140gr Berger Hunting VLD, and the 140gr Hornady AMax. 10 rounds each, in half grain increments, looking for max charge weight.

Dumping powder into the cases didn't go very well, the large diameter of the WSM cases kept the necks from seating fully into my RCBS powder funnel, circa 1980. I ended up screwing a nozzle from my RCBS powder measure into the funnel and was then able to dump powder. So now I've got 60 rounds loaded up and I'm just waiting on a couple of parts to finish assembling the rifle.

Right now, I've got a Boyd's Pro Varmint left hand stock in Applejack, A Vortex HST in 6-24x50 with the VMR-1 reticle in Mil/Mil, an EGW 20 moa scope base, Burris XTR low rings, NSS recoil lug and barrel nut, and a 6-9" Harris Bipod ready to go on the rifle. I need to open up the barrel channel for the varmint contour, and add pillars once the barrel is mounted to the action.

I'm currently waiting on a left hand Magnum bolt face for a short action, and the WSM firing pin and mainspring, and a couple of other small parts then I can set the headspace and finish bedding the stock. Most of those parts are coming from Savage, who knows when they'll ship out.....

[GaCop]

Great report. Looking forward to hearing your range report.

[Rooster 50]

Question.........why not anneal the brass before you run them through the sizing die. My feeble mind says that it should make for less failed cases?

BTW I am considering the same build. I am sitting on a WSM action that has been to SSS for the full treatment and a new trigger. I will be following your progreww with much interest.

[Hotolds442]

I could have annealed the brass before running it through the sizing die but I figured that since it was all once fired brass, I wouldn't have much of an issue with it. Going from .277 to .264 shouldn't have culled as many as it did, oh well. I've got another 140 or so empties coming, and they'll all be annealed first this time.

[Hotolds442]

Today's mail featured 100 rounds of nickel plated brass and the mystery bolt head.
I had found a left hand bolt face at Numrich that was listed as LH 7mm-08, 300 WSM, 338 WM so I decided to take a chance on it. It was going to be the right length-wrong face, the right face-wrong length, or just right. Well, it turned out to be the 338WM - too long. I could turn .125 off the shaft and chamfer the firing pin hole, but I'd still need a firing pin since the lugs are longer than the standard bolt face that's currently installed on the bolt. The firing pin I have is not adjustable. Since I have the correct bolt face and firing pin ordered I'll wait until I have the correct parts and leave this one unmolested. Hopefully my parts are somewhere between Savage and Foxx.........

The H-1000 loads I made up the other day for maximum load work ups:
140gr Berger HVLD H-1000 62.0-66.5gr at 2.775COL,
140gr AMax H-1000 62.0-66.5gr at 2.902COL
I added another bullet to the mix tonight too.
140gr Nosler Custom Competition HPBT, H-1000 at 62.0-66.5gr at 2.826COL
Those are all seated at .020 off the lands
The MagPro loads,
140gr Berger HVLD, MagPro 67.0-71.5gr at 2.775COL
140gr AMax, MagPro 67.0-71.5gr at 2.902COL
140gr Nosler Custom Competition HPBT, MagPro 67.0-71.5gr at 2.826COL
And the H-4350 loads were:
140gr Berger HVLD, H-4350 54.0-58.5gr at 2.775COL
140gr AMax, H-4350 54.0-58.5gr at 2.902COL
140gr Nosler Custom Competition HPBT, H-4350 54.0-58.5gr at 2.826COL

[darkker]

Good luck Hotolds.
My leopard does well with US869 and 140gr bullets. I haven't found a need to anneal after resizing 7 wsm brass, but to each his own. In talking to Sierra, since my case capacity is almost identical to the 264WM, I use that data's starting loads.

Cheers

[Hotolds442]

I chose my starting loads based on 270 WSM - 140gr load data. It's good to see the Sierra recommendation. What kind of velocities are you seeing with the 869 and 140's? Last time I looked, my local Sportsmans had 869 in stock.

I did not intend to anneal any brass for quite some time, but a 6% cull rate was rather disturbing. That may have been due to the brass that I got and its previous care though. It was mixed Federal and Winchester, and both makes had culls. It may have been exposed to heating and cooling repeatedly while it was laying on the ground waiting to be picked up, or something similar. I'm not sure of its history, other than its claimed to be once fired and has no resizing marks on it.

Since I'm annealing everything now, at least all the brass is considered to be equal at this point. That should make for a more consistent bullet retention across the board.

[Hotolds442]

The remaining parts I need to complete the rifle are on their way, so I should have a shootable specimen by the middle of next week. I have some 139gr Scenars and some 140gr Remington bullets to add to the mix now too.

[yobuck]

I had the same gun for about 3 years. Lefty mod 11 w/a 28" 8 tw brux.
Liked every bullet i fed it but i wanted to use the heaviest.
H1000 RL22 and 7828 were best in that gun.
63 gr h1000 w/140 berger or sierra were about same for accuracy and where i settled.
Scorched a bolt face bad using the Win brass on the hotter loads also ejector issues.
Neck was a tad tight and i didnt want to be turning brass so we honed a little out of the neck area
which solved that problem. If your not pouring the coal on you might just as well have a 6.5x06ai imop.
Anyway 320 rounds later it found a new place to live.
Try some Norma brass if you can find it. i found it worked better with the hotter loads.

[Hotolds442]

Thanks for the info yobuck, I will definitely be pouring the coals to it.
If I start having issues with the Winchester brass, I'll take that recommendation and seek out some Norma brass.

[scooterf79]

Looking forward to the report. Cant wait to see/hear the results!
Scooter

[Hotolds442]

Got the remaining parts in the mail today, I ordered the wrong firing pin, so I stole the firing pin from my 300WSM and put the bolt together. I also installed the barrel and set the headspace. All that's left is to open up the barrel channel and then I can install the pillars. I should have a range report next weekend. I also want to load up some 139gr Scenars before the weekend. That'll give me 120 rounds to shoot. I probably will hit max charges before I get all 120 rounds shot up though. Got the rest of the brass in the mail today also, I've got 250+ empties now. I should be good to go for quite a while.

[scooterf79]

Nice! Should make for an interesting round....what kinda speeds are you maybe talking about?
Scooter

[Hotolds442]

I should be able to see somewhere north of 3300fps with a 140VLD. I've seen others have attained speeds up to 3460 with the same bullet and IMR7828, but I'll believe that when I see it through my rifle. I'd be happy with 3350 if the accuracy is there, but I've read that the VLD suffers in the accuracy department above 3000-3100fps. We will see.

[scooterf79]

Nice.....sounds pretty good.....the trajectory should be really good with those magical 6.5s.....cant wait to see how it does
Scooter

[yobuck]

I should be able to see somewhere north of 3300fps with a 140VLD. I've seen others have attained speeds up to 3460 with the same bullet and IMR7828, but I'll believe that when I see it through my rifle. I'd be happy with 3350 if the accuracy is there, but I've read that the VLD suffers in the accuracy department above 3000-3100fps. We will see.

Id need to be standing there seeing it to believe 3460 w/a 140. And that would be shooting and counting clicks and not chrony info.
Chances are the cases were tossed after they were extracted, but those things arent ever talked about.
7828 will produce velocity and i do use it in some rifles. But its not a friendly powder to use in my opinion.
Pressure can come very abrubtly when using it so proceed with caution. 33/3350 is doable with h 1000 with good hunting accuracy.

[Hotolds442]

Yobuck, thanks. You need to just spill your guts on this chambering. You've been there, done that. All the info you've got on the round would be helpful to myself and others. I'm not particularly interested in lighter bullet info, but the 130VLD might be an option further down the road. I'd like to see the load data you've accumulated posted into this thread, if you can. I know I'd appreciate it.

[darkker]

Sorry for answering late...
I stopped at the 3,000fps mark using US869 with the 140's.

The original loading info was done before we had the Pressure Trace. I hope to get the thing tested sometime this year, we'll see. About the VLD comment, I've heard the same about running them harder. The Pressure Trace work in the Creedmoor showed that, no, Berger bullets aren't exempted from the laws of physics :P

We compared the hybrid targets against CC's & SMK's, same load and jump produces.... The same pressures! So there is no significant difference in bearing surface to stickiness of the jacket.

[langenc]

Regarding "dumping powder"-- get hold of RCBS and get a scale pan w/ built in funnel. Then you can just weigh and dump into the case, separate powder funnel eliminated and all the fumbling along w/ the funnel.

[Hotolds442]

Well, I made it out to shoot today, and I'll just say I'm not impressed so far. The 140 VLD's were a major disappointment in the accuracy department, the AMax rounds showed pressure signs before the other two bullets, and the 140 Nosler Custom Competition bullets just plain spanked the others. I was able to shoot all of the H-1000 rounds without seeing pressure signs, the MagPro peaked earlier than I thought it would, and H-4350 was the accurate powder of the day. Wind was a factor today, severe enough that I had to keep going down range and adding more rocks to keep the cardboard target holder upright. The table I used was moving around in the wind and I just couldn't settle into a good groove. The only bright spot today was the sun. I'll load up some 4350/Nosler CC's and play with the seating depth some and see what happens, everything I shot today was .020 off the lands. We drove about 15 miles of gravel roads to get to an open spot to shoot, and about 6 of the 30 VLD loads had the bullets fall into the cases. For some reason, they don't have the same neck tension as the other two bullets. I need to figure that out because I really want these bullets to work. Out of 90 loaded rounds, I was able to shoot 70 of them before seeing pressure signs with the various loads. A couple of the AMax loads show some potential, and the VLD's just sucked. Im not giving up on them yet though, and I've got some 140 Accubonds on their way to try out next time too.

[Hotolds442]

Made it out today to pop off a few rounds, I was kind of surprised at the results. I started off with the A-Max and Mag Pro, 5 shot groups of 68.5 grains from .000 to a .040 jump. The best group was 1.250" at 100. This combination just isn't gonna work, I'll play with some other powders later. Next round was the 140 Nosler Custom Competition and 56.0 grains of H4350. At .000, I had a pretty good group going except that it was on two different backstands.....recoil moved me onto the other target lol. At .010 Jump, I put 5 rounds in a nice, tight .455" group. .020 jump opened up a bit to .735" but if I throw out one flier, it's a .375" group. As I worked my way out to .040 jump, the groups started to open up again, larger with each jump. I stopped shooting at that point, because I decided I'm done with load development until I get a chronograph. I ordered a Magnetospeed when i got home, it'll be here next Monday. That'll give me some time to work up some more loads for it.

[Hotolds442]

Snagged a couple of pounds of IMR7828 today, and loaded up some pressure test rounds. I also loaded up 20 more of the 140 Noslers with H-4350 at .010 jump to see if I can rely on the above load. I also got a product notification from Midway, another 200 Berger 140 Hunting VLD's are on their way. It was a busy day!

[scooterf79]

Sounds like you might be coming onto something now. Hope it tightens up and stays there. Curious to hear your speeds over the chrono.
Scooter

[yobuck]

Yobuck, thanks. You need to just spill your guts on this chambering. You've been there, done that. All the info you've got on the round would be helpful to myself and others. I'm not particularly interested in lighter bullet info, but the 130VLD might be an option further down the road. I'd like to see the load data you've accumulated posted into this thread, if you can. I know I'd appreciate it.

Well there really isnt much more i can say about my experience with that cartridge.
I had lots of notes on a legal pad of the various loads combinations i used.
I have nothing here in FL other than lots of fishing tackle. All that stuff is left where i use it.
I never tried Mag pro but had bought some to try. I did try rl19, rl 22, 7828, and h1000.
Best velocity came with rl22 and 7828 but also the most pressure. H 1000 gave good velocity
and was easier on everything. Make up your mind though theres going to be pressure if you
want the best your going to get from that cartridge. 63 gr of h 1000 with a 140 was a load i
could live with and thats where i settled.
I have lots of slower powders because we have lots of bigger guns. But those arent the answer
for this cartridge for max results.
The shooters forum had a seperate site which i went to when i was playing with that cartridge.
I believe it is 6.5 wsm shooters forum. I think you will find there also that h 1000 was the most used powder.
I think your decision on the magneto speed is a wise move. The Chrony's just arent reliable enough on a day to
day basis to rely on for any solid information. I rely on actual drop data results for making charts.
The furthest i shot my 6.5 wsm was just under 1100 yds. As i recall i needed 22 minits to get it there with a 140.
I can beat or match that with other guns using heavier bullets. Which is why in my case it found a new home.

[Hotolds442]

I also got a chance yesterday to do some chronographing with the new Magnetospeed on this one, I had about 35 different loads to try, looking for pressure and getting velocity readings.
The 140gr Nosler Custom Competition over 56.0gr of H4350 with .010 Jump was 3075fps. I have the rifle sighted in for this load, and had 20 loaded up for today. I shot all of them, details later...
The 140 Nosler and IMR-7828: 56.0gr was 2789fps, I shot 15 loads in 1/2 grain increments all the way up to 63.0gr which clocked 3212 and was a maximum charge, the bolt was stiff after firing.
The 140 Nosler over 57.0gr of IMR-4831 at .010 was 3033, I shot 10 loads in 1/2 grain increments all the way to 61.5gr, which read 3240 on the Magnetospeed.
Next up was the 140 Nosler and 55.0gr of IMR-4831 at .010 which clocked 3005, I shot 10 loads in 1/2 grain increments all the way to 59.5gr, which read 3200 on the Magnetospeed.
The last loads I had were the 140 Berger HVLD and 67.0-71.5 grains of H1000. 67.0 clocked in at 3280 all the way up to 68.5 grains, which was a maximum load in my rifle at 3338fps. I didn't shoot the loads between 69 and 71.5.

Since I now knew the velocity of the 20 rounds I had the rifle sighted in for, it was time to start shooting some distance. I shot 6 of these on paper, so I had 14 left. My son had his 6.5x284 and some 123gr Hornady SST loads that I did up for him last deer season, and we had a hillside with several steel plates set up. We ranged the array at 421 yards, and I entered the information into iStrelok for both rifles. 16 clicks for me on my Viper HST 6-24x50, and 21 for him on the PA 4-14x44. My first shot was a miss, as I aimed at the top of the plate, but from there, every shot was a hit after that with both rifles. We then packed up the truck and on the way out stopped at the end of the clearing where we ranged the plates at 722 yards. I put that info into iStrelok and we set up the bench once again. 40 clicks for the WSM, and 50 for the 6.5x284. Both rifles were spot on using that info as we never missed the targets. I would have liked to go up the hill and check the hits on the plates, but we were both starving and it was getting late. I now have about 150 rounds on the 6.5 and the groups are starting to tighten up. I'm good with running the Noslers at 3075fps, at least for punching paper. Now I just need to get the VLD's and the Accubonds settled in.