Ok here we go. First the comparison

Monty Montana · 04-16-2015, 01:28 PM

Two rifles both 204 caliber. #1 Cooper model 21 (single shot) MTV ... thought by many to be the ultimate "production" rifle. Standard issue 24" Blued match grade (their words not mine), 1 in 12 twist.
#2 Savage model 12 LRPV factory set up, nothing added or changed (yet).

for: targets and mostly squirrels and PD"s out to 450yds...some out of state coyote hunting from stands. How do they compare? and what would you do to make the Savage an equal in all respects to the Cooper, now I'm not sold on Cooper today...I have first hand knowledge of very sloppy work and piss poor quality control but that's a whole other discussion. What I'm trying to get is starting with a stock Model 12 and then (fixing anything needed) to bring it on par with what Cooper claims their rifles are.

Costs, are they justified up front (Cooper) or later to true up the Savage?

Monty Montana

**darkker** · 04-16-2015, 02:42 PM

Yikes...

Well, I don't know what Cooper "Claims"; but know what a few of them "Are".
So, I would say ASSuming an equal barrel quality, there is no difference aside from normal variation.

When you have a machined thing, there are tollerances. The difference being what tooling specs do they start with, and how long are they allowed to wear, PRIOR to replacement. NO two bores will be identical, groves will also be slightly different. HOW the barrels are then "adjusted" to stay straight will play into this. Savage essentially puts them in a.. call it press, and bends them eye-ball straight. How that affects the bore depends upon many factors. How well are the lugs lapped on a cooper? The Savage will float to compensate.
Savage stocks are garbage, and always have been. Will you buy factory ammo or load? If you load will you ONLY make one load, or adjust for normal differences of each rifle?

Pride of craftmanship is a wildcard. I LOVE Ruger actions solidness, I LOVE Savages utility.

**WinnieTheBoom** · 04-16-2015, 02:43 PM

This is just my experience so take it for what it is:

I've owned probably 8 different Savage rifles for as long as I can remember, and not one of them wasn't a tack driver from the factory. From pre-accutrigger '06 sporters, to accutrigger '06 sporters, to the model 110 FCP .300 mag that I shoot now, every single one of them has outperformed me as a shooter. If I do my part, they do theirs. Beyond that, talk to anyone that makes it into a branding war - 'Remington vs. Savage' or whatever. You'll be hard-pressed to find anyone (other brand or Savage) that will tell you that they've seen more than one or two Savage rifles that DON'T shoot well. Take it for what it's worth but I think that's a testament to their out-of-the-box accuracy. Of course there's always going to be instances where someone gets a lemon, or one slips through QC, but it's going to be like that with any high volume production company. The more they produce, the greater the chance there is of issues. Common economics.

I've had very limited experience with Coopers, but if Savage is going to do the job just the same, for less money, with a bigger aftermarket, I think you already know the decision that you should make. Fwiw, the LRPV is a VERY nice rifle. Buddy of mine just got one and it hangs right with my 110 FCP in an HS Precision stock. This is one of these instances where you really can't go wrong with either, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most people that weigh in on this forum are going to tell you something very similar.

Good luck.

**ngoforth** · 04-16-2015, 09:37 PM

I have a cooper model 21 in .204 ruger and had a savage 12 fv in .204 ruger. For the most part the accuracy I have gotten out of both has been very good. Is one more accurate than the other, not really. The cost of the cooper vs the savage to me was just better fit and finish. My cooper is a beautiful rifle and I got it for a really good deal that I couldn't turn down. However I doubt I would buy another unless a really good deal came up again. I didn't have to do anything to my model 12fv to get it to shoot besides load work up and a quality scope. I would buy another savage and wouldn't do anything to it before i found out how it shot with hand loads and the best scope I could get and then maybe a new stock. I did use my 12fv as a basis to build a 20 vartarg after I shot the barrel out while the cooper stayed in the safe.

Monty Montana · 04-17-2015, 12:36 PM

Gentlemen, Thank you for your response and for confirming my personal thoughts.
Savage was ordered along with a Bell and Carlson stock...just waiting for the paper work to go through.
Monty