Axis .243 muzzle rise?

**rick3** · 03-25-2015, 02:59 PM

Strange question, I know, but...

Got an original Savage Axis (not XP or II) in .243. Nice gun, great accuracy with handloads.

But one thing puzzles me: the amount of muzzle rise with this rifle. Now I know .243 is a small caliber, and the recoil is minimal (I feel more with my SKS in7.62x39, and that's not a heavy recoiling gun), but the amount of muzzle rise is surprising. I notice it most when I'm shooting prone off front/rear bags. I'm shooting with the front bag just fwd of the mag well. It seems to have more muzzle rise than any of my other rifles. I imagine it would be worse with a bipod...

Anyone else notice this, or is this just me? I was thinking that my other rifles (all semi-auto) have heavier barrels, maybe generally heavier forward of the balance point, maybe that's it...?

Not a problem, just curious.

**bootsmcguire** · 03-25-2015, 09:55 PM

If you are used to a semi-auto, then yes a bolt gun will seem to have more muzzle rise. With a semi-auto, the action cycling will soak up some of the recoil and is possibly giving you less perceived muzzle rise. A bolt gun sends all the recoil forces rearward into your shoulder and with the forend sitting on a bag or bipod it often allows the gun to rise more noticeably than a semi-auto rifle.

Just my observations from the many bolt guns and few s/a's I've had.

**DrThunder88** · 03-26-2015, 03:38 AM

I don't know this for sure, but according to Chuck Hawks, a 75 grain .243 Winchester round in a 8.5 pound rifle has about the same recoil energy as a 125 grain 7.62x39mm fired from a 7 pound rifle. I suspect that an SKS, especially without the Axis' cooshy buttpad, could feel more heavy recoiling even though the Axis is firing a more heavy recoiling round.

**rick3** · 03-26-2015, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by DrThunder88

I don't know this for sure, but according to Chuck Hawks, a 75 grain .243 Winchester round in a 8.5 pound rifle has about the same recoil energy as a 125 grain 7.62x39mm fired from a 7 pound rifle. I suspect that an SKS, especially without the Axis' cooshy buttpad, could feel more heavy recoiling even though the Axis is firing a more heavy recoiling round.

Hunh...live and learn! I would never have thought this...well, between this and what bootsmcguire said about semi-autos vs bolt-actions, this all makes total sense.

So, related question: is there a simple way to lessen the muzzle rise of the Axis? I know some people have stiffened the forend (which would make it heavier)...would that make an appreciable difference? I'm going to play with forend position on the bag next time I'm out; a post on a Benchrest forum mentioned that as a factor. As I mentioned, it's not a real problem, but it would just be nice to not lose the target in the scope so much after each shot.

**foxx** · 03-26-2015, 02:08 PM

eh... I am no expert on this, either, but it seems to me if you are shooting a light (sporter) contour barrel, it is just the nature of th beast and should not be "tied down" or anything. A heavier contourred barrel s.a. a varmint barrel or full bull will be naturally heavier and there fore not have the same recoil affect. There are other advantages/disadvantages to those as well. I believe the trick here is to develop/learn a "hold" and "cheek weld" and "grip" etc. that allows for CONSISTENT recoil action from the rifle. Trying to fight it is normally a mistake. Adding weight to the stock will certainly help. Short of adding a muzzle brake, however, I don't think you will be able to get it to a point where you will be able to see hits thru your scope.

Eager to hear other's opinions/advice.

**Philf** · 03-26-2015, 05:41 PM

I have the Trophy Hunter 11 in the 308, and it is also jumps
It also gets the barrel hot after a few rounds, and its not much of a rifle for much
Target shooting. It is a light rifle for hunting only, and there is not much you can do about it.

Its like what Foxx said it's just nature of the beast
And live and learn

Phil

**bootsmcguire** · 03-26-2015, 09:19 PM

If it were me I would go ahead and add some weight to the stock like mentioned above, but more than that I would look into a brake. I am a fan of brakes and only have positive experiences. The only downside is the added noise, but earplugs cure that, and for me I very rarely have to worry about fellow shooters at the range. Our range is normally deserted when I go, and here soon after I get my new place I'll have a 200yd range right out my back door.

pickerandsinger · 03-29-2015, 03:26 PM

Never having owned a 243 and reading about the lack of recoil, I bought one for my 5'2 wife and went to the range to sight it in for her….100 grain Winchesters….I was quite surprised at the recoil and muzzle jump myself….Its a pretty little pink gun though…LOL….I am in the process of amending it a bit afore I let her fire it….Dave

Toney · 03-29-2015, 05:53 PM

I told the wife shooting her new 243 that I had brought some light and heavy loads. 80 and 100gr.

I started her with the 100s and she asked me when were we shooting the heavy ones.

**Robinhood** · 03-29-2015, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by Toney

I told the wife shooting her new 243 that I had brought some light and heavy loads. 80 and 100gr. I started her with the 100s and she asked me when were we shooting the heavy ones.

Hehe. Girly man.

pickerandsinger · 03-30-2015, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Toney

I told the wife shooting her new 243 that I had brought some light and heavy loads. 80 and 100gr.

I started her with the 100s and she asked me when were we shooting the heavy ones.

….Pretty funny…My wife has shoulder problems from a torn rotator cuff injury….Thats why I bought her the 243…She had previously a 270 Browning that she killed her last Adirondack buck with…I was thinking back to when I humped with my M-16 in never never land….I was an Infantry rifleman and don't ever remember thinking about recoil on a 223…..I figured the 243 would be easier on her shoulder than it was and still be a capable deer rifle with 100's…Course she won't even notice it hunting….But sitting at a bench with a box of 100's, I figure I should at least get her a limbsaver and maybe a boyds if'n that don't do it….And some lighter ammo for her to get used to the rifle…I'll tell her your wife must be tougher than she is…..Or maybe I'll just keep quiet…LOL….

**rick3** · 03-30-2015, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by bootsmcguire

If it were me I would go ahead and add some weight to the stock like mentioned above, but more than that I would look into a brake. I am a fan of brakes and only have positive experiences. The only downside is the added noise, but earplugs cure that, and for me I very rarely have to worry about fellow shooters at the range. Our range is normally deserted when I go, and here soon after I get my new place I'll have a 200yd range right out my back door.

Will the thin barrel of the Axis take the threading necessary for a screw-on brake? Or would I need to go with one of the better clamp-on variety?
I've seen some good reports about the kahntrol.com product...

**Rosco** · 03-31-2015, 01:04 AM

I am almost positive their is not enough metal on the muzzle of a factory sporter barrel for any type of threading. Either the Kahntrol or Witt Machine break should work fine.

Toney · 03-31-2015, 10:30 AM

My biggest 243 blunder was telling the wife I was buying it for her...

Now I've got the sweetest shooting 700 and she won't let me take it out...

**wbm** · 03-31-2015, 10:47 AM

Bought a Light Weight hunter last year in 6.5 Creedmoor. The barrels are 20" and a bit more thin than the standard sporter. Muzzle jump with the 140 Amax was just "stellar".

**bootsmcguire** · 04-02-2015, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by rick3

Will the thin barrel of the Axis take the threading necessary for a screw-on brake? Or would I need to go with one of the better clamp-on variety?
I've seen some good reports about the kahntrol.com product...

Yes you should have enough material, but your desired threads will tell for sure. 9/16-24 will work nice, but 5/8-24 is a bit more standard.