My Initial Thoughts On Reloading - Advice Welcome

[svana]

So with the recent acquisition of my new-to-me Savage 111 in 30-06, of course the natural progression was for me to start thinking about reloading. I had always debated on it for more of a monetary reason as I shoot 9mm and .223/5.56, but once I picked this up it kicked down the door in regards to whether or not I should pull the trigger so to speak. My main hesitation is the fact that I live in an apartment, but I was just able to double my storage unit size for free, so now I’ve got 8’x8’ worth of space, and a workbench fits perfectly in there along with all of my tools and whatnot. Combined with the multiple threads about some people’s closet setups and apartment rigs, I think I could put something nice together. However, by opening that can of worms I essentially opened up pandoras box in regards to information overload. Plenty of what I’m bringing up I’ve looked at in other threads, but I’d like to try and digest it and get any input available from you guys as to if I’m thinking in the right direction.

Why do I want to reload?
Well, at this point it’s two-fold. Firstly, I would like to get into reloading to put together a load that works best with my rifle. I’d like to use that same rifle for hunting and for long range competition. While reloading isn’t as necessary for hunting (most of my hunting ‘at the moment’ will be within 100yds most likely), it is a bigger factor for competition. Secondly, if I already have a reloading setup then I’d be hard pressed not to reload for my other calibers and save money on it. I think the biggest value money-saving wise will come into reloading for the 111 as I’ve seen that match ammo can eclipse $2/rd and my understanding is that reloading comes in at about $.50/rd. Nowadays you can buy reman 9mm for close to 20cpr, so I’m not sure about how much savings can be had in the smaller calibers.

What type of press should I look at?
Based on the primary reason I wanted to reload, my understanding is that a single stage press would accomplish this task well (if not better), but when it comes to reloading the rest, a progressive press would be best suited for cranking out range rounds. While quality is more of a requisite than quantity when it comes to the 111, the progressive (Dillon 550) is able to be converted into a single stage, no? If this is the case, then it may be in my best interest to go the progressive route.

Space setup
As I mentioned before, I was able to secure a larger 8x8 storage unit for no additional charge, which when coming from a 4x9 makes it seem like you have a whole extra room to use. Converting that space into a small workshop is great, which I’ll use for reloading, working on my 4Runner parts, etc. I plan on building one of the $50 workbenches that is floating around the internet. A separate goal for me is that I’m trying to build it all from scrap wood found on craigslist or whatever because the bench will probably be temporary as I don’t want to move it with us once we move out of the apartment. So on that note, if you’ve got any extra 2x4’s or a sheet of plywood laying around northern VA let me know lol.

New or Used?
I’ve been keeping my eye out for the going rate of a used Dillon 550 and it seems that the majority are going for about $350 with the amount of accessories/dies accompanying them varying. When the machine is $450 new, the spread isn’t too large.There was one ad I came across that had a Dillon with a bunch of parts (didn’t have a list) and a MEC 9000 series going for about $900. That’s far more than I wanted to pay even with the MEC, but it gave me an understanding that the base machine doesn’t lose it's value much, the deal comes in the amount of dies/accessories that could come with a used package.

Literature
Most “so you want to start reloading” threads that I have come across often list a solid set of books/manuals to take a look at. Some of these lists seem to be brand specific, Hornady, Speer, Lyman, Nosler, etc.. Does a Hornady book still provide value if you’re not using Hornady bullets for example? Would buying the books before you even look at a press be advisable?

Components
This is probably the most convoluted topic for me. I understand the concept that in order to develop the best load you try multiple permutations of different variables until you find the combination that works best for your rifle. However. Where the heck do you start? In theory you start with a certain set of components and then change one out at a time. If you did that you could literally rack up thousands of dollars worth of powders, bullets, primers, cases that you’ll never use again? Am I missing something here? Research has led me to the fact that a lot of 111 ’06 shooters are finding success with 165 grain bullets. That’s a start, but that doesn’t narrow it down much. When most talk about buying powder by the pound, it’d be crazy to think that one would get a bulk quantity when you’re not even sure if it’s going to be a good match. Can you buy like sample sizes of different components to try them out and see what’s best for my specific case? Also, the rifle still has a stock barrel. When I replace the barrel, will I have to repeat the process over again? I’d think so, but it would at least give me a solid starting point I think if I already had a good load worked up for the rifle.

Hunting vs. Competing
Most of what I have read has based their reloading requirements on hunting and not competing in long range competitions. For those that do both, do you have a different load for each? If so, does that require you to re-zero your optic based on what load you’re using if you only have one rifle that serves double duty? I would assume you’d want a boat-tail low drag bullet for competition to give you the added accuracy and less resistance. On the flip side, you’d want a more rounded nose for hunting to provide more expansion than penetration, no? The round would undoubtedly go through the deer at under 100yds regardless of the nose type, but the expansion would pack a better punch for takedown?

Testing your loads
I think I have a fairly solid understanding on how to test your developed loads. Many have a bunch of different ways of going about it, I’d probably stick to a modified ladder system at first, then expand upon the various permutations once one variable has been identified as successful. I think the key to any load testing is just note taking. Record every result and analyze what you have in order to take the next step forward in narrowing down your selection. It would be a pain to have to wait a week in between testing a new set of loads, but I guess that’s life, right? Plus, I’d like to find a location where I could test them out at 300 yards, but I definitely don’t feel like I’m at that point yet.

Conclusions
So far those are the limits to my understanding of the reloading world as it pertains to my situation, I’m sure more will come up as time goes on. However, the biggest questions I have are in the Components and Hunting vs. Competing category. While I’d appreciate any remarks or opinions on my overall state of understanding, any experiences you guys have on those two categories would be extra appreciated. Thanks for the breadth of information.

[Robinhood]

This is such a big topic to type out and one illustrations leads to a whole other set of questions. I think the best advice is to find yourself a mentor. This person needs to be someone who is mature and experienced. I think if I was where you are I would ask an experienced reloader if he were to start out reloading today what would he buy to get started.

My list for a beginner rifle reloader:

Lee Classic Cast Press
Lee Collet dies for your caliber. If not available RCBS or Hornady ETC..
A 1010 or M5 scale would work
RCBS or equivalent Powder trickler
An RCBS or equivalent Hand Primer
Sizing wax
Dial calipers
Relaoding blocks
Reloading funnel set
Hornady case head space gauge kit
Hornady Stoney point tool, bullet diameter inserts and modified cases for your calibers.
Cartridge storage boxes.
A HF rock tumbler with some steel pins. Lemishine and Dishsoap.
Good reloading manual like Sierra.

There is a lot more including trimming your cases and chamfering tools
Once you get thre the list and investment start to grow. Lots more and I am sure I missed a few things

Good Luck

[Yukon21]

I have been re-loading for almost 50 years. 1) find a mentor (gun clubs are good places to look). 2) buy a few books on reloading and most bullet books have great helps on most everything. Invest in the right learning to start with as it will pay off in dividends down the road. 3) then go solicit the hardware items you'll want and need for loading.
Maybe this is not what you wanted, but your green as grass in the reloading aspect, and I wouldn't want you to do something that may prove incorrect later. Do the homework first, the internet is also a good source to look up information. There are many you-tubes I never had growing up. Don't invest in hardware only to be disappointed later, and say I wish I would have.......

Welcome to the art of re-loading, I truly hope you will find it to be an extension to shooting. I find great pleasure in researching and developing a load, go out on the range and fine tune it, later using the load to drop a nice critter.

[D.ID]

For single stage presses I would try and steer you toward the RCBS rockchucker.
For progressive presses I think your on the right track (only track) to be pursuing dillion's 550. I love my 550 but use it exclusively for handgun now days and my rock chucker or redding for rifle ammo.
I gave away the two lee presses I had and all the lee dies I had. Preferring hornady dies myself.
I do not shoot competitions and am strictly a hunter but if the rifle and ammo can't maintain 1/2" It's useless to me because I have so many that can.
.
A mentor is a great benefit but only if he has pursued and accomplished what you want to do. Uncle buck's "super hammer" hunting loads or methods may very well be totally irrelevant or worse.
My Dad (bless his heart) has loaded all his life and in one evening could teach you how to ruin your gun, loose some fingers and miss your target every time.
.
Advise making a plan based on a specific intended load and a plan B load so you can pick up a specific book or two to read basics of reloading and also have specific book data that are applicable.
If you thinking competition sierra, berger and hornady are particularly relevant.
.
As you are clearly aware you could buy all sorts of things to try. With proper loading and load development it should not require a large variety or high volumes of anything.
I have three categories of acceptable accuracy for my bolt rifles......1/8"-1/4"-1/2".
A whole pile of rifles that fall into one of those three categories (none that do not) all running my handloads and if it can't be achieved using "varget" powder (small-med), "h4350" (med-large) or "h1000" (large or extra heavy in med) it aint happening at my reloading bench.
Primers:CCI or federal.
Bullets: berger,sierra or hornady.
.
I also would not recommend multiple different loads for different occasions. Keep it simple and focus all your available time, energy and money on one fine tuned load suitable for whatever you have in mind and then test, practice or tune the heck out of it.
It's not near as hard as it sounds.
Be careful, pay attention, choose your information sources carefully, TAKE NOTES and good luck.

[GaCop]

When I started reloading more than 45 years ago, I bought all the books on reloading I could find. I read different loading manuals to gain knowledge from them too. All these years later I'm still learning. Reading and then actually doing is your best teacher. You have an advantage we older reloaders didn't have back then, the internet and good reloading sites are only a keyboard away.

[Berger.Fan222]

I benefited from buying and reading several reloading manuals first: Hornady, Hodgdon, Speer, and Nosler. Spending a lot of time in the reloading manuals clarified things because of their different perspectives. Reloading is a deep subject with lots of nuances. The nuances you miss when reading one manual have a better chance to get through if you learn from multiple sources.

Once you get the gist of some of these nuances from reading multiple manuals, you will be better prepared to evaluate the trade-offs between different purchasing and equipment decisions and more likely to make initial investments that serve all of your reloading needs well.

[olddav]

I have no usefull answers to your questions but here we go.

Reloading is an good way to get he most out your firearm, it is also a good way to destroy you and your firearm. For me the question is what is more important to you, volume or quality? *Quality takes time but if you want or require volume quality must suffer and in my opinion so does safety (other may disagree). For the beginner focus on quality and learning procedure, as you gain knowledge and experience upgrade your hardware, you will have a better idea of what you need at that time, but I guess you have already asked your self these questions. One final thought, I offer my opinion based on my limitations and experiences and I'm willing to bet you are not like me. Good luck and have fun.

[yobuck]

Remember one thing, if it was hard most of us couldnt do it.
Reading is a good thing. A mentor could be a good thing.
Could also be a not so good thing depending on the mentor so be careful there.
Learning the basics is all you need to know for now, or ever know depending on you and where you want to go with it.
Id be ruling out any progressive loader at this point.
Dont hesitate buying used stuff on ebay. That includes dies etc. ive bought lots of used dies on ebay.
An rcbs rockchucker press wont ever be obsolete for you even if/when you ever add a progressive.
Get yourself a decent set of dial calipers, less than $50 will do, but best not plastic.

[wingspar]

One year ago this month, I decided to get into reloading. I bought two reloading manuals and did extensive research on equipment. I also decided on the Dillon 550. However, when it came to buying powder, I hit a brick wall. There is no powder for what I wanted to use it for at all. Everyone is out of stock. I live remotely, so everything must be done online. I was able to find 2 pounds of powder in the last year. It was not one of the powders I wanted, but it would work. Unfortunately, that is all the powder I’ve been able to get my hands on in the last year, so reloading for me is on hold. I have not bought a single piece of equipment, and won’t till I can find a decent amount of the powder I want, which is Unique. There are two other powders I want, but none have been in stock in the last year, well, Unique came into stock once. I was sitting at my computer when the “in stock” notice came, but it sold out before I could get to it. Finding powder makes finding .22 ammo in the last year and a half look easy.

[Texas10]

I thought you'd enjoy a perspective from someone new to reloading. I first fell down this rabbit hole just three months ago, and I can honestly say it has been quite enjoyable, not to mention educational. As for saving money, well……perhaps after I have shot about 10,000 rounds, I may break even. Seriously, unless you're doing a whole lot of shooting, don't plan on saving money as your 9mm and 223 ammo is the cheapest on the shelf. But if accuracy is more of what you're looking for, reloading is the most likely way to achieve those bug hole groups. And if my experience is in any way applicable to your situation, I can tell you may find that the extraordinary brain trust you'll find here on this site will help you achieve your goal very quickly.

I began by purchasing a Hornaday Classic Reloading kit and supplemented it with a good bore cleaning rod and jags, swabs, and cleaners and most importantly a chamber guide to minimize bore damage while cleaning. An ultra sonic cleaner, Hornaday digital calipers, headspace gage set, OAL gage set, a balance scale for powder weighing, Harbor Freight rock tumbler, polishing media…..and then of course, the consumables such as bullets, powder, primers, etc. Total investment before my first hand load went into the chamber was probably around $800.

One thing to note: when it comes to buying powder, be sure to do your homework regarding the best powder to use for your particular type of shooting, and start early with your online search. Powder is extremely hard to come by, suppliers have it in stock for only a few minutes a month if it is a popular or notoriously accurate brand. AND, not only should you expect to pay a handsome price, but shipping will tack on another 40% as there is a $28.00 hazardous shipping fee on every package, plus a shipping and handling fee. So be sure to fill the box when you order, primers too. Same shipping costs.

The bottom, bottom line here. I can buy very accurate target ammo for my 223 for 50 cents per round. It'll shoot sub MOA groups out of my Savage model 12 BVSS varmint rifle. Some days it'll shoot tighter, some days looser, after all , it is off the shelf ammo. But all things considered, it is within a few cents of the cost of reloading. And it has taken me approximately 500 to 600 rounds of reloading to achieve a consistently tighter group than that cheap factory ammo will produce.

Price of equipment and consumables for the first year, about $1000 if you scrimp. Seeing your first 5 shot group with all holes touching…..PRICELESS.

[Hotolds442]

One year ago this month, I decided to get into reloading. I bought two reloading manuals and did extensive research on equipment. I also decided on the Dillon 550. However, when it came to buying powder, I hit a brick wall. There is no powder for what I wanted to use it for at all. Everyone is out of stock. I live remotely, so everything must be done online. I was able to find 2 pounds of powder in the last year. It was not one of the powders I wanted, but it would work. Unfortunately, that is all the powder I’ve been able to get my hands on in the last year, so reloading for me is on hold. I have not bought a single piece of equipment, and won’t till I can find a decent amount of the powder I want, which is Unique. There are two other powders I want, but none have been in stock in the last year, well, Unique came into stock once. I was sitting at my computer when the “in stock” notice came, but it sold out before I could get to it. Finding powder makes finding .22 ammo in the last year and a half look easy.

Gary,
You're looking in the wrong places if you can't find powder online.
Try here:
http://www.gunbot.net/reloading/Powder/
I've seen unique listed more than once.......

[jonbearman]

Read the lyman manual as it one the best for anyone. Short range hunting versus long range are vastly different requiring different bullets that are in the 200 plus grain weight. The rockchuker and the lee classic cast are perfect to get started with reloading properly. I reloaded for 5 years before I got a rl550 Dillon and even then setting it up correctly was hard, but I had a mentor who knew his stuff and got to pick his brain for a very long time. Components are hard to find but it can be done. Buying used is a good idea as you can save a ton of money. Frequent accurateshooter.com as they have classifieds and good deals to be had everyday. Why do you want to reload, its because you will be able to make ammo that is better than you can buy. After awhile it will be a payoff on the investment. I have way over 10,000.00 in reloading tools and components. I add to it all the time with higher quality components like berger and other boutique match bullets. I would partner with a benchrest shooter if possible because we have high expectations of their loads down to last little detail. Old Dave how do you figure that posters didn't post good imfo. I am truly baffled by your response.

[wingspar]

Gary,
You're looking in the wrong places if you can't find powder online.
Try here:
http://www.gunbot.net/reloading/Powder/
I've seen unique listed more than once.......

I’ve never found any Unique when using those sites such as gunbot, which I can not use. Every time I try to use that site, I get about 30 seconds to look at the page before the page refreshes to a blank page. Refreshing the page will not bring it back up. Site is way to buggy for me. I see people recommending gunbot a lot, but I can’t use it.

I only check on powders once in a while, and don’t look even once a week cause I just feel it’s futile. I got lucky once in a whole year, but I don’t feel it’s enough to go ahead and order equipment. I think I’d want somewhere between 4 and 8 pounds on hand before I would feel good about ordering a press and all the stuff I would need.

[olddav]

Jonbearman,
Typing Error
I intended to start my sentence with "I have" thus changing the sentence to "I have no useful answers to your questions..."
Once again this is why I hate to try to communicate via text, every error just lays there for everyone to see. I am going to change my post to avoid insulting anyone else.

[seanhagerty]

Get with someone that reloads and spend time with them while they reload. Knowing what the reloading process looks like will go a long way to your understanding that press, scale, etc... you will want.

Sean

[TXCOONDOG]

I had no one to mentor me so I bought ABC's of reloading and three additional manuals. Started with reloading for pistols, my bolt actions, and lastly my AR15's.

I started with a Hornady single stage press along with Hornady and Lee dies. I upgraded my equipment as I learned for my needs.

Bill Morgan has a beginning reloading series on youtube that may help.

[Twinsen]

While I think Dillon makes the best progressives, progressives have slop and runout issues that single stage presses don't.

I like the Lee Classic Cast over the RCBS Rock Chucker due to the primer chute instead of the primer flinger. I got mine originally to deprime and do nothing else. Also I had in my mind that I may one day reload 50 cal. But I won't.

And another vote for a mentor to help you. In the meantime youtube has lots of videos for you to veg-out on.

[Robinhood]

It does not matter to me, out of the Orange Crush, RockChucker and the Classic Cast, I can roll equal cartridges. The thing that puts the Classic Cast back on the bench repeatedly for me is this.

[seanhagerty]

It does not matter to me, out of the Orange Crush, RockChucker and the Classic Cast, I can roll equal cartridges. The thing that puts the Classic Cast back on the bench repeatedly for me is this.

Cut a water bottle lid and tape it to the bottom of that and screw a water bottle on. Dump when full.

[Robinhood]

Exactly. I just throw the water bottle away and screw on a new one though. I picked up XX thousand range cases and every now and then on rainy days I do 500-1000. That Fills them up fast.

[Twinsen]

I clamp mine to my ugly coffee table and pop primers while watching TV. Since it's so low, I just have it dump into a cardboard box on the floor. Any box. Or anything, really.

[psharon97]

The faster you do something, the more likely your are to make a mistake. I would recommend a single stage press for everything when starting out. Here are 2 kits that I would look at.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/724...ProductFinding
or
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/937...ProductFinding.

[GaCop]

One year ago this month, I decided to get into reloading. I bought two reloading manuals and did extensive research on equipment. I also decided on the Dillon 550. However, when it came to buying powder, I hit a brick wall. There is no powder for what I wanted to use it for at all. Everyone is out of stock. I live remotely, so everything must be done online. I was able to find 2 pounds of powder in the last year. It was not one of the powders I wanted, but it would work. Unfortunately, that is all the powder I’ve been able to get my hands on in the last year, so reloading for me is on hold. I have not bought a single piece of equipment, and won’t till I can find a decent amount of the powder I want, which is Unique. There are two other powders I want, but none have been in stock in the last year, well, Unique came into stock once. I was sitting at my computer when the “in stock” notice came, but it sold out before I could get to it. Finding powder makes finding .22 ammo in the last year and a half look easy.

Have you checked Powder Valley's web site? They usually have a good selection of powders. Order enough to make the HAZ MAT fee some what economical.

[svana]

Hey guys,
Thanks for al of the advice. It's great to hear different points of view. I've got someone that's been showing me the ropes (so to speak) in talking back and forth about any questions I've got, and he's also willing to have me over to work through the reloading process whenever I'd like. I've also got a couple manuals on order and am going to be looking through those, but I feel like most of the reviews on these manuals are simply stating that they've got all of the load data, not a lot in regards to the basics of reloading. Either way, I'll take a look and see what I can get from it. In regards to equipment, I've decided to go with the Dillon 550, but am focused on buying used. I am in talks now with getting one with a whole list's worth of accessories for about $400, so if it's in good shape and I can close on that I'll be pretty content. I think my biggest obstacle at this point is still finding a solid starting point in terms of a load, but I'm narrowing it down some.

[seanhagerty]

At $400, just jump on it. Dillon will fix it if its not right. Their customer service is second to none.