I'm thinking about investing on a Harrell’s powder measure during this off season and I have a couple questions. My process currently is to do a course drop from a RCBS powder measure with the micrometer attachment. Then weight on a Gempro 250 and trickle to +/-.01 of a grain.
I'm not trying to start the weight vs volume debate. I'll prove that out for myself if I get one. I'm really just trying to speed up my current loading process without giving up any accuracy.
1. Does getting a Harrell’s eliminate the need to trickle?
2. How do they handle powder like 4831SC?
3. What makes them more accurate then X brand?
Thanks for the help.
Are you really trickling down to .01 or is that a typo Dennis?
I've seen some pretty tight groups shot with Lee scoops as a powder measure, but nothing like the one hole groups you seek for the shooting you do. I'm definitely interested in the info that follows on the Harrel's.
Tagged.
Originally Posted by keeki
Guess it doesn't really matter. If ya cant afford $15, you won't be buying much anyways
I bought one and then gave it away to my brother. It was not any more accurate than my RCBS. Much nicer made, easier to return to a previous setting, but no more accurate. Mine really hated stick powders. Accuracy was +/- 0.1 grains for ball powder.
The following comments are not mine,
Anyone used a Jones measure?
Quoted Text:
All of the better measures I've used (RCBS, Redding) are plenty accurate
enough for precision shooting, assuming propellants with good metering
qualities are used. The advantage of a good benchrest measure (Jones,
Culver, etc.) is that it's not only accurate, but *repeatable* when
settings are changed. A powder scale gets little use when a good
micrometer measure is handy. The micrometer adjustments available for the
RCBS (worst) and Redding (better) measures are very repeatable for each
individual measure, but don't have the "feel" (proportional to cost, of
course :) or powder grain-cutting ability of a Jones (best). A Jones
setting of 50 clicks will deliver the same amount of powder as ANY
other Jones measure with a setting of 50, something that the RCBS
(don't know about the Redding) won't do. Since most of us don't
have a bunch of different powder measures that we might accidentally
pick up on the way out the door to a benchrest match, it really only
matters how repeatable the individual measure is, not how uniformly
made are all its mechanical brethren.
-Toby Bradshaw
http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/powder_measure.html
newbie from gr, mi.
I've been using one for 20 years, and would not use anything else. I've been through, RCBS, Redding, Johnson and Pacific. There are certain powders that will not meter consistant through any of these type measures, so one must either rough cut and trickle, or find a particular measure best suited for that particular powder. I have an old Belding & Mull measure that is "king of the hill" for large kernal slow powder, but is horrible for ball powder.
As was stated before, the best feature is the repeatability in the settings. I have found that some powders require a slightly different technique to dispense consistantly, but the worst offenders are still within +-.01 gr. I also like the fact that it is set up to use screw on bottles.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
Thanks for all the great info guys.
Hotolds442 the GemPro 250 measures two decimal places for grains so yes I'm trickling to +/-.01. Now it can be a pain to the point of using tweezers to pick out a single kernel.
So it sounds to me the main thing I'm going to be paying for is the repeatability of my course drop. I've tried with my RCBS micrometer set up to go back to my marks and it is normally within a grain of were it was last match. Once I get in a rhythm the RCBS it seems to hold +/-.3 of a grain. Which means sometimes I can be trickling as much as .6, a real time waster. If the Harrell can get that down to +/-.1 that would help speed up the trickle. The repeatability of set up from match to match would be nice too.
I've been thinking about going to a ball powder this may be another reason to look at it.
Thanks again and anymore feedback would be welcome.
I guess me and my trusty Ohaus scale are a bit behind the times. I will NEVER pick out an individual kernel lol.
I might have OCD, but I must be in the early stages.
Originally Posted by keeki
Guess it doesn't really matter. If ya cant afford $15, you won't be buying much anyways
Dennis...like you im pretty OCD about my charges especially at ELR and will pick out or add 1 kernel... personally i think that ANY powder measure is not going to throw a consistent charge to + or - .1g no matter how much it costs...maybe with ball powders but once again i doubt it. i use a lee perfect powder measure a scott parker beam scale(because i dont trust digitalis)and trickle up. using the lee i can set it to drop within -5 kernels then instead of turning the trickler tube i lightly tap it with my finger and once you get it down you can drop 1 kernel at a time this way instead of the powder rolling into a pile at the end of the tube and then dropping a pile. once i set the lee up it stays pretty consistent...i always dump 2 charges into my trickler when i first start to prime it then its good to go...something ive noticed is that if i bump the lee or go faster of slower when moving the handle it will change the charge so like with seating bullets a consistent movement/pull will make for consistent charges.
also at $20 bucks you could buy several of the lees set them up and mark them for different powders. i know its a PITA and slow but if you want the charges perfect id say stick to what your doing now...you cant rush 1 hole groups LOL.
Ok thanks LongRange for making me feel a little better I'm not the only OCD!!
Ok I'm going to stick my toe in the weight VS volume debate because the curiosity is getting to me.
How does a hand loader using the volume method confirm they have a full load? When I do weight I have check weights to set my scale digital or beam I can confirm my weight. But volume seams like to me could have some variation depending on the way the kernels’ lay. Maybe better with spherical powders but still not perfect.
I guess if we used a liquid propellant there would not be a debate at all. Volume would be just as good as weight.
I think of the power measurer as having head pressure. Wouldn't the volume change as the powder measurer empties less and less "head pressure"? I guess you can keep it topped off, or use a baffle like I have in my RCBS.
I smiled when sharpshooter mentioned (the old Belding&Mull) Im still using the one i gave my father as an xmas gift about 60 years ago.
Its about as accurate as a measure can be in my opinion of coarse. No discredit to the Neil Jones or others for improvments to other measures intended.
The Belding & Mull can occaisionaly be seen on ebay. And if for no other reason, can add a nice touch to a loading bench.
I was working with a big magnum some years back and needed 88 gr. of H-1000(which reminds me of charcoal briquettes), anyway, the only volume tube I had for the B&M was too small for a charge that big. So I set the tube for 44 grs. and metered 2 units. Dumping both into a powder scale resulted in +-.001 almost every time!
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
LOL charcoal briquettes....thats a nice thrower if it will meter H1000 that closly...i bet you wouldnt have to even weigh finer powders.Originally Posted by sharpshooter
i weighed out 50 charges last night with the lee using Hodgdon hybrid 100V...which i know is about as close to ball as you can get without being ball but the point is its a $20 dollar thrower...it was already set from last weekend and after 2 throws in my trickler i weighed out 10 charges at .2g under 41g...9 throws weighed 40.8g and 1 40.6g.
the other 40 varied from 41.5 to 43g in .5g increments and most were within .4g even with adjusting up and out of 50 only 2 .2g over throws. now dont get me wrong im NOT EVEN trying to compare the lee PPM to ANY high end unit as i know they are super smooth and they(supposedly)dont cut kernels ECT ...but when it comes to extruded powders i just cant justify a 3-4-$500 dollar thrower that basically works off the same design as the cheaper throwers...if someone would let me test drive one before buying i might change my mind LOL.
Well i have been having that same problem for years with regard to the tube not holding enough powder.
But theres a guy on the internet who not only repairs and sells these things, but he also makes custom drop tubes any size you want.
So i had him make one that holds the 137 gr im using in my 338 with room for more. Problem is the resevoir in the measure dont hold that
much so im double dropping anyway at least into the tube. But for me at least its still better than tapping your fingers while you wait for an
electronic one to dump that much.
A 137G...Im broke now with this hobby/addiction LOL!! and also the reason i went with a 300WM and not a 338 lapua.
You probably ride around in a pickup also. But when you need 40 sq. delivered you wont be using the pickup right?
I primarily shoot practice on rocks with a 308 just to keep myself at least somewhat tuned up.
But when a 40 sq delivery is required the 308 gets passed up. lol
I know I could not live without my Harrell's.
Ok why 82boy? Do you still trickle or do you just trust the clicks? What is your discipline?
If I had to trickle, I would just give up. discipline? Benchrest both point blank and long range, bulseye pistol.
Last edited by 82boy; 02-03-2015 at 11:21 PM.
Would you also be more concerned about things like cases and bullet sorting than you would about small differences in charge weight?
Nope.
That's some fine accuracy. Man, I haven't seen a B&M in quite a few years!
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