Has anyone else found that the front...I don't even know what to call it. "Semi-pillar"? "Recessed escutcheon"? Whatever it is, has anyone else found theirs to be made of plastic? In my previous four or five Boyds Axis stocks this piece had always been made of some sort of metal, my guess being aluminum. However, I recently took delivery of a Pro Varmint, and during my initial inspection I noticed that the piece in question was loose in the front action screw hole. As I pushed the piece back up toward the inletting, I noticed my brass punch made a dull tap rather than the expected, distinctive, metal-on-metal tap. Upon closer inspection, it had the look of an injection-molded piece of nylon.
I'm returning the stock for an unrelated delamination issue, but I'm wondering if this is what I have to expect from the replacement. Actually, I have another stock on order as well, and if it too has this ridiculous plastic piece, it will be my last Boyds. I was disappointed by their decision to cheap out on the trigger guard after the first run, but if they are replacing both points of action screw contact with plastic bearing surfaces, that's just silly.
Glad you posted this about the Pro Varmint stock. I was about to order one of those for my new Savage Axis .223. Now I'm wondering if I should get one.
Does Boyd's even take calls about this sort of issue?
I think they should be aware that us shooters are picky about what we buy. I like the looks of the stock and it's what I will buy, but not if I'm spending good money on junk.
Boyd's...are you watching????
Unacceptable. While many replace theres with a real pillar theres probably twice as many that dont. I wont be buying anymore either if this is the new standard. This pro varmint seems to keep having laminate issues even after they "fixed it and reinforced it"
Yep, the one I got for my 111 LA is plastic as well. I planned to bed and pillar it anyway, so it wasn't really a big deal to me.
And the funny thing is I got a ProVarmint for my .270 I just built. It appears to be of fairly decent quality. No problems even after I've had it to the range 4 times and out in the jungle 3 times.
My issue is I hate the way it fits my mits. The angle of the grip is wrong for me and I don't care for the thickness of it either. With monster mits like mine, I like a grip I can really latch on to.
As soon as it's replacement arrives you'll be seeing it in the classified section.
Cheap.
'Scuse me while I whip this out...!
You already have a replacement so it doesnt matter but you could have used bondo or marinetex to widen the foreend and reshape it how you want.Originally Posted by fgw_in_fla
Seriously guys, what do you expect for that kinda money???
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
I know it's your prerogative to diminish other vendors, but in the event that wasn't just a snarky, rhetorical question: I expect to get what I had gotten for about the same price as before. Undoubtedly your stocks are better than Boyds', I have no firsthand knowledge of your Axis stock but SSS's products and services are beyond reproach here. Still, until recently, Boyds produced a pretty good, functional stock that could be made into an even better stock with a relatively small amount of effort. Even if I were to consider each hour I spent doing the basic tweaking my Boyds stocks in terms of my hourly rate at work, I would still spend less on a Boyds stock than I would on an SSS Axis ProHunter stock (assuming I would have to do no work on the ProHunter).
It would seem that this new plastic piece may push the cost-benefit balance in SSS's favor. I can't discount the possibility that another replacement stock may come to market that would offset this change, but if I were to pick a company that could do so, it would have been Boyds.
How expensive and time consuming would it be to replace the "plastic piece" was a metal one?
Id still buy a boyds even if the laminate was made out of compressed balsa wood and tub caulking over an SSS.
How about wood that isn't cracked or cracks after only a few uses?
An inexpensive QUALITY replacement stock. What a novel idea.
I mean after all, it's not a "throw away" item.
Well, maybe its not a throw away item....
'Scuse me while I whip this out...!
I didn't take Sharpshooter's question as anything but sincere, rhetorical or not. We all know Fred (SSS) makes quality stuff, his standards are high, and he ain't no dummy. That said, I gotta believe that if quality stocks could be sold profitably for less money, he and others would do so. It's not as if any of them have a corner on the market.
Personally, I like Boyds' stocks because they are incredibly inexpensive and easily improved. I consider them "unfinished" when I order them, and I have never been disappointed when they arrive. Using the best materials, it costs me $30 to bed and pillar them whether they split while doing it or need screws for reinforcement or not. Honestly, if they made them better, they'd just be more expensive and you'd still have to bed and pillar them just the same.
So why ask them to make an inexpensive, cheap stock into an expensive cheap stock?
SSS and Boyds fill 2 completely different niches and I hope they are both in business for a long time to come.
Well, until a recent event, the plant totally destroyed by fire, if one purchased a lam stock its a 90% sure bet it was made using Rutland plywood.
The de-lamination ( cracking) is somewhat of a mystery to me. I've fitted/bedded/pillared quite a few lam stocks over the years, three of my own(Boyds) and none of them have cracked. It only a WAG but other things may be coming into play as the cause.
The plastic escutcheons (bushings) have been standard fare for years in both aftermarket and factory stocks. Two examples..
On the left, one from a '90s era Savage factory stock, on the right the one from the Boyds pictured.
I don't care for them either soooo.....
Bill
Each morning eat a live green toad, it will be the worst thing you'll have face all day.
My guess is the "plastic" pillars are pretty hard and not much chance of crushing them, no matter how much force you put on them. Be real easy to push them ont, rough them up, reinstall and glue them back in place "to the proper level" when you bed the rest of the action. Or, go to the trouble of finding a pillar with the same OD and length, switch them and go from there.
Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.
I think I'll still buy the Boyds and just accept the tinkering part as included with the package..lol. Besides, I sure do like the look of the pro varmint. Also, I have reworked stocks before using walnut pieces to regrip them or customize them. As always, I usually paint them the colors I want anyways.
What ever it takes for Boyds to hold their prices down is OK with me, because I'm going to pillar bed with lamp rod anyway.
However, the laminent problems is another story. They have to solve that problem.
Subscribed......
I see things like this recent change as being penny wise and pound foolish. The plastic trigger guards I could possibly understand. If Boyds sells steel guards for $12-14, their wholesale cost must be at least $6-7, which is a small but significant saving on a $100 stock. But the trigger guard is also easily replaced and available for other vendors (other vendors that wouldn't charge me $16 for shipping one trigger guard). The escutcheon is a small piece of metal that, as a non-machinist, seems like it would be easy to produce en masse on a CNC lathe. It's also hidden under the mag latch plate, which I'm not sure can be removed without damaging something. Furthermore, it's not something I can pick up at Brownells. There have been a number of good suggestions for replacements and it might not even be necessary because I too plan to pillar the stock, but it gives cause to wonder what this precedent might lead to.
If they needed to increase revenue while still touting their low prices, I'd have suggested lowering their base prices and using their fancy, new website to let users customize their stocks more deeply.
I've gotten my mitts on my last Boyds stock, and it too has the plastic escutcheon. Fortunately I was able to get it out of the stock without damaging much (besides the piece itself). Unfortunately, it appears to be injection molded plastic as expected, which begs the question: why even bother? Not "Why bother putting that on a laminate stock?" so much as "Why bother getting a Boyds stock to begin with?" I mean the factory stock is injection molded nylon, but Savage saw fit to put steel pillars and metal contact points in the design and did so with the bottom line clearly in view.
Anyway, I've got both the escutcheon and magazine latch plate (which also is some sort of thermoplastic resin) out and have installed a steel spacer in the escutcheon's stead. I had thought about duplicating the latch plate in aluminum or steel (or even some phenolic resin) via waterjet, but the setup cost alone would kill me. Either way, that's not an area of terrific concern for me...unless we got a group of people interested!
On that note, is there a readily available option to replace the plastic ones?
Guys, the escutcheon serves no practical role whatsoever. It is merely a trim piece like trim molding around a door frame.
Use lamp rod (or something similar in dimension) for your pillars and drill the center of the escutcheon out so it is slightly larger than the OD of the pillar. Cut your pillar long enough to PASS THRU the escutcheon and epoxy it into the wood, not the escutcheon. Done this way, the action screw never touches the escutcheon. It could be made of Silly Putty and have no effect whatsoever on the pillar and bedding job. Once assembled, the screw heads cover the pillars and the opening in the escutcheon, so even if the hole for the pillar is cut a little sloppy or too large so there is some space between the escutcheon and the OD of the pillar, it can't be seen.
Seriously, it is a non issue.
i.e. don't use a washer or the escutcheon or ANYTHING between the bottom of the pillar and the top of the head of the action screw. Just let the head of the screw butt up against the bottom of the pillar.
Last edited by foxx; 02-13-2015 at 10:42 AM.
The only problem I can see with the plastic ones, is that the taper fitted one may exert pressure side ways and into the stock. And it will give more the tighter you you make the bolt.
Well, until a recent event, the plant totally destroyed by fire, if one purchased a lam stock its a 90% sure bet it was made using Rutland plywood.
The de-lamination ( cracking) is somewhat of a mystery to me. I've fitted/bedded/pillared quite a few lam stocks over the years, three of my own(Boyds) and none of them have cracked. It only a WAG but other things may be coming into play as the cause.
The plastic escutcheons (bushings) have been standard fare for years in both aftermarket and factory stocks. Two examples..
On the left, one from a '90s era Savage factory stock, on the right the one from the Boyds pictured.
I don't care for them either soooo.....
Bill
Guest
^ oops. Sorry.
+1 on what foxx said :-)
Perhaps I have been "lucky". Have had several Boyd's stocks over the last few years. Never had any "delamination", cracks or failure of any kind. To me they look good, and perform well so I will just keep on being a customer. The only problem I ever had was they mistakenly sent me an Axis prototype stock on one occasion and it did not bolt up correctly. Called them and within three days I had a replacement and they paid for me to ship the prototype back. Worked for me.
+2 on what foxx said. Lamp rods work great if they are installed correctly.
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