.223 or .308

[AndrewM96]

I will soon be purchasing my first rifle a Savage Axis. I want to know whether I should get it in .308 or .223, I may go deer hunting but I do know it wouldn`t be for a while if at all, as I do not have my license yet or even anyone around me that wants to go deer hunting that I know of. The ranges around me Canada Toronto area is at most a 200 yard range from what I have seen so to me the extra power and range price of the .308 may be wasted on 200 yard paper targets. I am mainly just looking for a help deciding as I feel confident that I want a .308 but I feel that I would regret it as I can shoot 1.8 - 2x more ammo with .223.

[darkker]

Let's try and get this mess straightened out.

First, no one but you can say what you "should" buy. So as far as what my suggestion is, clear your mind on what is real. You say you "may" go hunting, but no one else wants to. To me, that was a prime reason I started hunting; in a sea of girly-men, I had no interest in what "the cool kids" wanted to do. Does that motivate you, or do you need people around you to find happiness? Neither is wrong, just realize what is. If you need folks around you to do the same things, does that mean you probably aren't likely to go shooting much anyway? Then the discussion of economy of cartridges goes away.

A 223, at least for a novice, can't kill everything you are likely to want to hunt or cross paths with; the 308 will easily. Is the 223 even legal to hunt game with up there?
Have you shot both cartridges? Some can't tolerate recoil, some can. Pick what is more likely to give you the most giggle factor. For me, that has been 4,000+ rounds of 308.

[Twinsen]

If you aren't doing anything fancy, they're both good. I jumped into intermediate cartridges like 223 after realizing I needed more practice. Now I shoot both.

But for new shooters that ask me what to get, I pretty much always say 223. You won't pick up a flinch with a 223.

[AndrewM96]

Well my hunting partner is my 73 year old grandfather, who has no interest in hunting deer, so I may go with some other down the road at some point, my train of thought is that if I pick up a .308 now, I am ready for the off chance of deer hunting, while if I grab the .223 I am ruling out deer hunting without buying a new rifle. Also the cost of .223 up here is $0.60 Cad while .308 is roughly $1.

I am also a student on a student budget so I am leaning slightly more towards .223 due to cost factors.

I am trying to get opinions that's all though.

Also, I have shot 12 guage 3" shells in buckshot so I don't believe the recoil would be too much.

However I am also interested in longer range shooting which is pushing me towards the .308.

[barrel-nut]

Do the American thing- get both lol. ;-)
But if you are limited to just one, and hunting deer-sized game is even on the radar at all, the choice is clear: .308. Now all the .223 deer hunters are gonna jump all over me, but I think hunting deer with a small caliber like that is borderline unethical. Legal maybe, and I'm sure some have great success. But I like the margin for error that the larger calibers afford. That being said, there is no substitute for bullet placement, which goes hand in hand with accurate shooting. So if you can't tolerate the .308's recoil, you may be better off with the .223. But most folks can tolerate a .308. They're really not that bad as far as recoil.
Have you considered something in between, like a .243?
If hunting is not a practical reality, then definitely go .223. Or get it first, and a .308 later. Good luck

[AndrewM96]

My only concern with the .243 size is the price is the same as the .308 if not more expensive so there is no point in my eyes. I just dont want to get a .223 get a nice boyds stock for it and then neglect it when I get another rifle.

Although I think the .223 side is kicking in. Can an axis shoot 300-400 yards effectively?

[barrel-nut]

Although I think the .223 side is kicking in. Can an axis shoot 300-400 yards effectively?

In my admittedly limited experience with Axis rifles, as I've only shot one and it was a .243, I'd say that, in their raw and unmodified form, no. The major weaknesses I noticed were the trigger, and to a far lesser extent, the stock. Both can be remedied.
The major problem with the rifle I shot was the horrible trigger. I am not exaggerating, it was horrible. If I could manage to hold the rifle completely still, while simultaneously hauling the load of that exercise machine of a trigger, and get lucky enough to figure out when it would finally break, I did manage one nice group with it, about one inch at 100 yds. But that came with great effort. It was my sister's gun, and she is a complete beginner rifle shooter, although she is an accomplished athlete in other sports and took to this very well when shooting one of my rifles. But using hers, about 5-6" "groups" at 100 yds is the best she could do. I am absolutely certain that 90%+ of the problem is the trigger. The reason I am belaboring you with this story, is to illustrate my opinion that unless you are willing to replace or at least tinker with the trigger on that gun, you will have limited success at the distances you mentioned. Now there are many threads on here that deal with this topic and offer solutions. If you are inclined to work on your own equipment, and have a good understanding of what you are doing, this may be for you. If not, and you are set on an Axis as opposed to a Savage 10/11/12/14/16, I'd strongly advise you to spend the extra cash on an Axis 2 with the Accutrigger. Then, yes, you could have fun at 3-400 yds. Or, just go the route of a basic Model 10 or 12 with a heavy barrel, and have more aftermarket options, and a better trigger. Better trigger=more fun. Trust me.

[DanSavage]

I'd go with the .308,, shoot it less and focus on accuracy and fundamentals of good marksmanship. Your gonna want to get started with reloading as soon as you can afford it so the price factor on the .308 ammo won't be bad at all. Hunting deer is great,, who cares if anyone else wants to do it,, do it by yourself. I prefer to hunt alone because I'm much more focused on what I'm doing, how much noise I'm making and being able to blend in to the enviornment seeing a deer before they can see me.

[AndrewM96]

Well for the trigger I plan on remedying that by getting a new shorter trigger spring, then down the line picking up a boyds stock. I just like the idea of .308 but I can not forsee myself going deer hunting any time soon. I think I have made my mind on the .223. I also thought of reloading and will 100% get into that further down the line. I also want to make sure that .223 is good for 300-400 yard distances.

[s lantz]

I will soon be purchasing my first rifle a Savage Axis. I want to know whether I should get it in .308 or .223, I may go deer hunting but I do know it wouldn`t be for a while if at all, as I do not have my license yet or even anyone around me that wants to go deer hunting that I know of. The ranges around me Canada Toronto area is at most a 200 yard range from what I have seen so to me the extra power and range price of the .308 may be wasted on 200 yard paper targets. I am mainly just looking for a help deciding as I feel confident that I want a .308 but I feel that I would regret it as I can shoot 1.8 - 2x more ammo with .223.

I have shot many many deer in WV with a 222- 50 grain v-max bullet. Longest shots have been 250 yards. I hit them behind the shoulder and they spend 3 times and drop. The 223 has more ump than a 222. You can also go after other fur critters. just my 2 cents

[JASmith]

The .223 is a bit puny for deer but very pleasant to shoot.

DanSavage has the best advice, but you can extend his advice by buying .308 Winchester ammunition advertised as reduced or managed recoil. These are typically 125 grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of 2600 to 2700 fps, producing recoil like that of the.243 Winchester. These are good for 330 lb (150 kg) deer, meaning that you can both practice and hunt with this ammunition.

You can then readily move to full power ammunition wth that weight class or heaved bullets as your skills and confidence improve.

Your ammunition options expand dramtically if there is a hand loader in the family.

[AndrewM96]

Alright I think I am set on the .223.

Lots of compelling sides to both calibers but for the off chance that I go hunting further down the line I can just go out and buy another axis :D. For my main purpose of shooting paper/steel at 100-300 yards the .223 does the job while still being cheap.

Anyways as soon as I get the bugger I plan on getting that trigger spring changed so the pull is about 2-3 lbs and then possibly move onto a boyds stock in blue laminate.

Thank you all.

[barrel-nut]

Alright I think I am set on the .223.

Lots of compelling sides to both calibers but for the off chance that I go hunting further down the line I can just go out and buy another axis :D.

Thank you all.

Attaboy!!!

I'd still suggest you look hard at the Axis 2. Jmho

[AndrewM96]

For the difference of price between the 1 and the 2 the trigger spring is $85 cheaper and to me that means 150 rounds of .223!!!! WOO!!

Also how many rounds should I shoot before letting the barrel cool down? Can I shoot more than 5 a minute without worry of barrel damage?

[barrel-nut]

Trigger feel is affected by more than just the weight or length of the spring. But I do understand your thinking and I sincerely hope it works out well for you.

[Twinsen]

I'd heavily suggest the Axis 2. It's the difference between a pretty good trigger and a pretty bad trigger. Then again, I'd suggest a 10/11/12 to get a better stock.

[Robinhood]

Purchase a dbm model. Buy the one you want, then purchase a barrel, bolt head and magazine for the other cartridge. Get you a barrel and action wrench, and you're in business to shoot both.

You're next purchase can be an action and then another stock and then.......

Second thought. Get the LRPV in 223.

[Old Medic]

I fully agree with Twinsen. I would spend the extra $100 and get an 11. Why spend money and time on a spring to make a non-accutrigger better when you can get a fair-good trigger off the bat. The ability of a .223/5.56 to effectively engage targets at 300 yards is a given if your skills are up to the challenge. A quality scope, a good trigger and ammo your rifle likes will go a long way to helping you improve those skills. If it were me, I'd get the .223 and when the next bang-bang jones hits I'd get a .308. Good luck on your rifle shooting journey. May it give you a lifetime of enjoyment.

[AndrewM96]

The only issue with the 2 is in my eyes its hard to justify $100 more when a free-$15 upgrade can yield similar results, and as a first rifle I think the trigger upgrade will be more than enough especially for a .223 range baby.

[Lonewulf]

I think you about right to start with, my Axis 223 with a Boyds thumbhole stock shoots 1" groups at 150, the farthest I have had a chance to sight it in before winter. if I need to hit something harder I use my 30 year old Savage 243 110E ( I think) or my 8mm mauser.

make sure you get a decent scope for it, I have a Tasco 6-24 x42 ( under $100) on mine so I can see at that distance LOL hell to get old

[Lonewulf]

and then you can have the fun of making one of these which ever rifle you get :)

http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...3-15rd-mag-DIY

[Stockrex]

if it is legal to hunt deer deer with 223 then go for it

[JASmith]

if it is legal to hunt deer deer with 223 then go for it

...and plan on installing a fast twist barrel (1-9" or faster) capable of handling 75 gr Scirocco and 70gr TSX bullets.

Even then, the cartridge might be a little shy on ability for 300+ lb deer or on any elk.

[boostless]

I think you'll be fine with the 223, I shot my Rem 700 out to 600 yds. As far as hunting with it I would not recommend it. I've felt the non accutrigger and in my mind it would be worth getting the accutrigger. The whole buy once cry once thing took a long time to get through my head, just my $0.02.

[Berger.Fan222]

My only concern with the .243 size is the price is the same as the .308 if not more expensive so there is no point in my eyes. I just dont want to get a .223 get a nice boyds stock for it and then neglect it when I get another rifle.

Although I think the .223 side is kicking in. Can an axis shoot 300-400 yards effectively?

Another benefit of .223 Rem is that the less expensive rifles tend to shoot it well out to 600 yards.