Reply With QuoteThe cheapie hornady buggets over h4895 got me 3/8"
Okay, I'm trying to narrow down the myriad of component choices with this question. I've reloaded handgun ammo for decades and am new to long gun reloading. I have a Savage 110 in .223 that I'm trying to get sub MOA groups at 100 yards with. This forum has already given me a quite a bit of help. The rifle has 1-9 twist and I've decided to use H335 powder as a start realizing that Varget or another may be a fav for many of you. I'm also using BR primers. I started out with a box of Barnes Match Burner 69gr JHP bullets to work with to look for an accurate combination. 23.6 gr of H335 has given me a 0.92 inch group and I'm still playing with loads above and below that to see if they will tighten up more.
A good friend who sells reloading equipment tells me that he has not had the best results with Barnes bullets and suggests that I try a box of Burger bullets. When we looked at load test data that others have run with different bullets in the same rife it looks like Burger and Sierra do give the tightest groups.
I'm sure that many of you have your fav bullet but I would like to hear from those who have tried several different manufacturers and can give an opinion based on actual experience. What bullets seem to consistently give the tightest groups? Burger? Sierra? Hornady? Barnes?
Thanks
Idaho
The cheapie hornady buggets over h4895 got me 3/8"
That's certainly respectable. Did you have any experience with other bullet manufacturers?Originally Posted by Digduggy
idaho...primers have a big effect on things as well...BR primers are hotter in most cases than reg primers...if you have a combo thats shooting well with BRs then try a different primer...non BR...and see what happens.
My go to bullets are Sierra 52, 53, and 69 gr. Match Kings with IMR4895 powder and Winchester small rifle primers giving groups averaging ~.6 MOA. Berger 55 gr. Match and Nosler 55 gr. Ballistic Tips have also given similar results. In my rifle the 52 to 55 gr. bullets seem to group slightly smaller than the 69 gr. I have tried all three CCI small rifle primers as well as Federal 205's and Remington 71/2 and saw no difference in groups. I also started with H335 and didn't do well with it (or anything else at that time). Finally I got some better groups with IMR4895 and I never looked back.
If I could just try one bullet to maximize accuracy quickly, it would be Berger, if I could find them. You can get some lot to lot variations with Bergers (changing muzzle velocities and point of impact), but odds are the groups will still be small, very small.
Sierra bullets are always a good bet too. Sometimes a bit more load tweaking is needed to dial them in.
Hornady match and varmint bullets are excellent also. Sub MOA every time in .223 for me, but not as small as Bergers and Sierras.
You also gotta work not to get MOA or better with Nosler Ballistic Tips in .223.
Barnes would be about my last choice for accuracy in .223.
I have had very good results using 52 grain and 69 grain sierra matchkings. I have used many powders but Benchmark and BLC-2 give me the best results with winchester primers. I was surprised with Hornady 60 grain vmaxs accuracy. I just buy whatever I can find at the cheapest price since I do not shoot in matches or hunt. .223 in my case is a very forgiving round to load I have not used Berger .22 cal bullets but have used them in other calibers. Their accuracy is top notch so I would have no doubt about their .22 caliber products. If your budget allows try a few different brands and weights and let the rifle tell you what it likes.
Varget with 69gr SMK's have performed the best for me, my brother and my shooting buddy in numerous match quality AR platforms and several bolt guns. I always work up loads with several different powders and bullets anytime I get a new rifle and this combination usually comes up as the clear winner(1/4-1/2 MOA). However, the fast twist Shilen barrel on my Savage LRPV prefers the Berger 80gr VLD's with a lot of Varget.
You can not go wrong with Varget in pretty much any .223. I highly advise you to try working up a few loads using Varget.
I see Hornady bullets mentioned above, but I have never had any luck with them in any rifle or cartridge. I'm not knocking Hornady. I use their reloading supplies, presses and pistol bullets all the time. I've just "never" had any of their rifle bullets in any caliber I reload(.17, .223, .243, .284, .308 or .338) come up as the most accurate bullet. Normally, they are the worst grouping bullet in my test loads no matter the caliber or powder used. Honestly, the last two times I've worked up loads I don't even bother with Hornady even though they are sometimes less than half the price of other bullets I usually try.
For shooting paper I pretty much stick with Berger. With your 9 twist you can go as heavy as the 73gn HPBT target bullets. Their target bullets do measurably better for me than their varmint bullets, wish they would make their 64gn in the target variety. Sierra would be my second choice. I also like the Hornady V-max, not quite as accurate but cheap
My 9twist with the Sierra 69gn Matchking and H335 did best at 25.2gn powder, Rem 7 1/2 BR primers, Lake City Brass, Chrono at 3100fps. Your mileage will vary.
If you really want to work up an accurate load you might want to do some ladder tests and then play with your seating depth though your magazine will limit how much you can do there.
My thoughts are if you can't get a 69smk to group well you got problems.
My "show off" load Is IMR-4198 and Berger #23390 52 gr FB varmint/match sparked by Fed 205M, .025" OTL. Wickedly accurate in a 9 twst McGowen. For Vermin the Nosler 55 gr B-tip, Accurate-2230, Fed. 205M, .010" OTL. The Bergers aren't as explosive as Noslers Particularly at longer (300 yd. plus) ranges but get the job done with awesome accuracy. Rock chucks get weak kneed merely mentioning the words "Ballistic tip" :)
****, there's a TON of great info here. You guys are awesome!!!
I think I will pick up a box of 69gr Sierra match kings and a box of Nosler 55gr Ballistic tips tomorrow on the way home from the range.
Thanks again.
Last edited by Idaho; 01-01-2015 at 11:07 PM.
69 gr Sierra or Nosler over 25.0 of H4895 (work up your load in YOUR barrel) - provides superb accuracy in 1:9 twist barrels.
I don't shoot .223 in a bolt gun but I do shoot it in my AR 1:7 twist. 55gr Hornaday vmax I get sub moa regularly with it. I will verify my load before I post it.
[QUOTE=fgw_in_fla;256183]We told you so...[/QUOTE]
Also try the Sierras 65 gr GK. In my .223 (Tikka 1:10 twist) they group the best at about 1/2". Even better than the 69 gr MK. Load is 26.5 gr BLC-2. Remington cases.Wolf primers.
Benchmark has also worked well. For some reason for me H335 has been very inconsistent.
22" to 24" 1 in 9 bolt gun (stock Savage 11) you can't go wrong with Benchmark, 69mks, 55g V-Max, and cci-400 primers..Spend some time matching your charge weights exactly to each tenth of a grain, match your brass trim lengths and your gtg..Got some 7/8" @200yds and 1 3/4" at 300yds last week in 50* weather..also good glass is a must!!!
Don't overlook the 64gr Berger. In my Shaw barreled 10FP I have shot the tightest groups of any rifle I've ever shot over a moderate charge of H-335. The 63gr Sierra is a close second in that rifle. For some reason that barrel prefers 63-64 grain bullets. As suggested, play with different primers once you get tighter groups and see what happens, but don't do this if you're loading to maximum charge weight without working up again.
Originally Posted by keeki
Guess it doesn't really matter. If ya cant afford $15, you won't be buying much anyways
Berger first....... followed closely by a tie between the sierra matchkings and the hornadys .......... ultimately it comes down to your individual barrel and which one you find an accuracy node with first.
If you are purely concerned with accuracy those three are the top end of accuracy in standard production bullets.
Weather your slinging 52...69....or 75 grain should be decided based on max intended range.
Lots of good advice posted above.
You have a huge number of good choices available.
Let's look at a couple of easy ones.
24-24.5 grains of Varget, or RE15, or VV N140 behind a Hornady 75 BTHP bullet. Consistently produces 1/2 MOA. It's the same thing I use in my service rifle and my space guns as well as my bolt guns. You'll get similar results with a 77 SMK.
If you're looking for a smaller bullet, 60 grain Nosler ballistic tips with 24-25 grains of the above powders works really well.
Don't use crappy primers or crappy brass.
It's really easy to overthink things. Getting good groups with a .223 bolt gun is one of life's easier - and more pleasant - tasks.
Good luck.
JS
Is the major consensus in favor of BTHP or has anyone used the flat bottomed projectiles with any success?
Flat base for lighter bullets/shorter ranges, BT for heavier bullets/longer ranges.
Lighter weight meaning up to 55g? I would assume shorter range would mean 300 yards and in... I ask because I bought a couple of 100 round boxes of Hornady SP flat bottoms today in 55g flavor... I have a Rock River 1 in 9 twist that I load for and I usually use boat tails...
I find myself grabbing Hornady more times than not. Sierra in what I need are hard to find. The Hornadys always do very well for me. Have had good luck with Berger's. When you find the right load they are hard to beat, but you can burn out a barrel trying to find the right load.
With all that said, my two smallest groups were with 168 Amaxes and 105 Amaxes.
More shooting, less typing.
69 gr. SMK
25.5 gr. Tac.
CCI 400
Lapua Brass
Rifle DPMS 16" BULL
2818 M.V.
1/2" EZ
I bought a pound of Varget and gave it a try and got two three shot groups that were covered with a quarter. One with 45 grain Speer Soft Points and one with 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. Now I'm contacting a gunsmith to get the action bedded and then I'm going to continue with the quest. I appreciate all of the advice and will let you know how the quest goes.
I'm surprised that so far the gun does not like the 60 plus grain bullets. Kind of a surprise for a rifle that is supposed to have a 1-9 twist.
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