Action not optically centered?

[r0ttie1]

I have a question, I mounted a new scope on my 10fp and it darn near burns up all the elevation trying to zero it at 100 yards. I sent pictures to the scope manufacturer and followed up with a phone call. They say that "The action is not optically centered and there is a 1 MOA cant". I have a flat base on the rifle. Anyone else ever heard of the action not being centered?

[Blue Avenger]

if it is one of the older flat back, there were done by hand with a file. no set dimensions.

[Slowpoke Slim]

If it's really taking all your elevation to get it zero'd at 100, then it's WAY more than a 1 moa cant. Have you tried a different base, or are you sure it's not the base? You can do the "easy fix", and use Burris signature rings with the offset inserts, or you can do the "hard fix" (expensive but more "correct") and send your receiver off to SSS and have it straightened. May as well have it timed and trued while it's there, and again, may as well have a comp trigger installed too...

;D

[r0ttie1]

if it is one of the older flat back, there were done by hand with a file. no set dimensions.

No, it's a round receiver.

[r0ttie1]

If it's really taking all your elevation to get it zero'd at 100, then it's WAY more than a 1 moa cant. Have you tried a different base, or are you sure it's not the base? You can do the "easy fix", and use Burris signature rings with the offset inserts, or you can do the "hard fix" (expensive but more "correct") and send your receiver off to SSS and have it straightened. May as well have it timed and trued while it's there, and again, may as well have a comp trigger installed too...

;D

I have expensive rings on it. I just ordered a EGW 20 moa base but the scope rep assured me that that wouldn't really correct the problem.

[Slowpoke Slim]

Set those "expensive rings" aside for your next build. When the 20 moa base gets there, put a pair of Burris signature "zee" rings on it. Order the +/- 10 moa insert set, and I think (I'm not positive) that they make a +/- 20 moa insert set. Order the offset inserts seperately. Start with the 20 base and the 10/10 inserts. They will go -10 to the front and +10 to the rear. I believe that will get you 40 moa (20 base, 10 down in front ring, and 10 up in the rear ring). If that doesn't "fix" it, put in the -20/+20 inserts.

If that doesn't do it, it's time to visit a "good" smith.

[r0ttie1]

Set those "expensive rings" aside for your next build. When the 20 moa base gets there, put a pair of Burris signature "zee" rings on it. Order the +/- 10 moa insert set, and I think (I'm not positive) that they make a +/- 20 moa insert set. Order the offset inserts seperately. Start with the 20 base and the 10/10 inserts. They will go -10 to the front and +10 to the rear. I believe that will get you 40 moa (20 base, 10 down in front ring, and 10 up in the rear ring). If that doesn't "fix" it, put in the -20/+20 inserts.

If that doesn't do it, it's time to visit a "good" smith.

Will they fit on a Picatinny rail? They say they are for Weaver bases.

[dcloco]

1 moa is 4 clicks on a 1/4 moa per click scope or 8 clicks on an 1/8 moa per click scope.

As suggested, Burris rings will help you out.

The inserts come in +/- 5, 10, and 20. So, it IS possible to go from -5 to +20 moa with the inserts alone. I have one scope/base combo that I use + 10 front and + 10 rear just to get the scope to sit just where I want it on this stock/ring/scope combintation.

Something else is going on here.

You can take a piece of 0.025 or 0.030" cardboard and place under the rear of the base to find out if this is the direction you need to go.

Is the scope adjustment bottomed out or topped?

[r0ttie1]

1 moa is 4 clicks on a 1/4 moa per click scope or 8 clicks on an 1/8 moa per click scope.

As suggested, Burris rings will help you out.

The inserts come in +/- 5, 10, and 20. So, it IS possible to go from -5 to +20 moa with the inserts alone. I have one scope/base combo that I use + 10 front and + 10 rear just to get the scope to sit just where I want it on this stock/ring/scope combintation.

Something else is going on here.

You can take a piece of 0.025 or 0.030" cardboard and place under the rear of the base to find out if this is the direction you need to go.

Is the scope adjustment bottomed out or topped?

I had to almost top it out. I used up almost all of my elevation up trying to get the bullet to come up to the target. And using 4 clicks on a 1/4 moa, I'll bet I raised at least 5 moa, if not more. This has me really spinning. I can upload a picture of the turret but don't know how on this board. I mounted and zero'ed another scope on a Armalite with no problem.

[pdog06]

If you moved 4 clicks and the scope moved 5moa then the scope may be the issue. And I dont see how the scope manufacturer could tell a 1moa cant from a picture. Dont sound right to me cause 1moa wouldnt top out your scope anyway..

What compnents are you using(scope, base, rings, boresighter)?

[rjtfroggy]

I agree with Pdog there is no way to tell from a picture.
Dcloco is right about the shims a small piece from a soda or beer can under the rear of the base (cheapest way) should put you on the target.
What make of scope,was it new or a change over from a different gun did you recenter the cross hairs if it was a change over.
If it is off this far after trying a few things contact Savage service and send it back for repair or replacement.
I just saw your other post and put a answer there but just in case you don't look there I'll put here also.You said"round action with a flat base" and there lies your problem, put the proper bases(round) and the problem should go away.

[r0ttie1]

I agree with Pdog there is no way to tell from a picture.
Dcloco is right about the shims a small piece from a soda or beer can under the rear of the base (cheapest way) should put you on the target.
What make of scope,was it new or a change over from a different gun did you recenter the cross hairs if it was a change over.
If it is off this far after trying a few things contact Savage service and send it back for repair or replacement.
I just saw your other post and put a answer there but just in case you don't look there I'll put here also.You said"round action with a flat base" and there lies your problem, put the proper bases(round) and the problem should go away.

No, the base is rounded to fit the receiver. It's a new Nightforce scope mounted with Nightforce rings. I changed to lower Nightforce rings after first experiencing this problem and the scope was mounted by Bruno of Bruno's Shooting Supplies. I have no idea who made the base on the gun but they will be replaced as soon as the new rings arrive in the mail..

[r0ttie1]

If you moved 4 clicks and the scope moved 5moa then the scope may be the issue. And I dont see how the scope manufacturer could tell a 1moa cant from a picture. Dont sound right to me cause 1moa wouldnt top out your scope anyway..

What compnents are you using(scope, base, rings, boresighter)?

I moved at least 24 to 20 1/4 moa clicks up.

[rjtfroggy]

Something doesn't sound right here.
You state it is a Night Force scope and Night force states there are 400 clicks of adjustment in their scopes which means 200 in either direction that equates to about 80moa. If you moved 20-24 clicks which is 5-6 moa you still have 56-60 left or about 14-15moa left in adjustment so you haven't used up all or nearly all of the adjustment only about 25% of it. If another 20moa on the Egw base doesn't help(which really should not be needed) send that rifle back to the company for repair or replacement.
I have 3 different model 10 fp's all with 0moa bases and don't even come close to using up and of my adjustment on my SS scopes, and I am pretty sure the Night Force scopes have more moa adj. than my SS scopes.

[r0ttie1]

Something doesn't sound right here.
You state it is a Night Force scope and Night force states there are 400 clicks of adjustment in their scopes which means 200 in either direction that equates to about 80moa. If you moved 20-24 clicks which is 5-6 moa you still have 56-60 left or about 14-15moa left in adjustment so you haven't used up all or nearly all of the adjustment only about 25% of it. If another 20moa on the Egw base doesn't help(which really should not be needed) send that rifle back to the company for repair or replacement.
I have 3 different model 10 fp's all with 0moa bases and don't even come close to using up and of my adjustment on my SS scopes, and I am pretty sure the Night Force scopes have more moa adj. than my SS scopes.

Nightforce says the 8-32x56 I have has 65moa elev. 45moa wind. I'm almost up to the top ogf the gradients on the scale under the turret. If I halve that, it's 32.5 moa.

[r0ttie1]

If you look at the picture on their login web page, My turret looks almost like that at 100 yards.

[rjtfroggy]

You should still have 41 clicks or 10.25 moa @100 if you add in the 20 moa there should be more than enough adjustment.I think you may have a problem with your rings, maybe they are mis matched or the smith mixed them up on the bench before installing. Try a shim under the rear of the base or try the scope on a different rifle, or a different scope on this rifle would be even better, if the problem persist send it off to Savage, they will make it right.

[r0ttie1]

You should still have 41 clicks or 10.25 moa @100 if you add in the 20 moa there should be more than enough adjustment.I think you may have a problem with your rings, maybe they are mis matched or the smith mixed them up on the bench before installing. Try a shim under the rear of the base or try the scope on a different rifle, or a different scope on this rifle would be even better, if the problem persist send it off to Savage, they will make it right.

At this point I'm waiting for the EGW 20 moa base. I tied two different heights of Nightforce rings so I don't think it's a rings issue. Both sets of rings were new in the box.

[dcloco]

One more item....

ZERO the scope in the middle of it's travel. Somebody may have reset the zero on the scope adjusting knob - loosen the set screw after you have the scope at it's middle and move the knob to the correct position.

[pdog06]

Just curious, what are you trying to end up with? Do you want the scope to end up optically centered when it is zeroed at 100 yds, or how many moa of elevation do you wanna end up with?

Reason I ask is I dont know why the scope rep would assure you a 20moa base would not help you gain some adjustment.

Couple other things to check:
- Are you sure the front of the base isnt sitting on the recoil lug and making it higher in the front? That would cause what you are saying.
- Maybe take the scope off and put another scope in the same ring/base combo and see if it has the same problem, just to rule out a problem with the scopes adjustments. Just because the parts are expensive and made by NF dont mean they cant be defective. May not be the problem, but it is an easy way to rule it out.

[rjtfroggy]

Loco I forgot all about that may need to be put back to mechanical zero.If he reads this he can do a search for how it is done,I have explained it once or twice.

[r0ttie1]

Loco I forgot all about that may need to be put back to mechanical zero.If he reads this he can do a search for how it is done,I have explained it once or twice.

Thanks for all the help! I appreciate it. I just had a hard time accepting that it would be the receiver. At least I have some things to try now.

[Joe O]

It very well could be a misaligned barrel with the action,or a warped action,virtually aiming the barrel lower tha the horizontal plane of the action,scope bases or scope.You ddn't say if this was a new gun,or one hat you just re-scoped.My Savage LRPV shot 17" low at 50 yds with scope reticl centered.I corrected it with the =/- 10 burris inserts fore and aft,andstill needed scope adjustment.It went back to the factory for other issues,and I neglected to mention the low shooting problem.The floating bolt head covers up many misalignment flaws.Savage will do everything they can to make it right.Call Effie Sulivan in customer service.Send Emails with pictures(if that will help).They had Ups pick mine up the next day after the engineering department saw the problem.

[Cycler]

I had a similar problem with a recent round action Accutrigger Model 16 in 7mm-08. With standard two piece Weaver bases installed, I used up nearly all of my Leupold 2-7x32 scope's elevation adjustment just getting zeroed at 100 yards.

Brownells sells shims to place under scope bases to correct this type of problem and it took a shim pack of 0.025" under the rear base to let me zero the scope with the elevation knob pretty much centered. That's about 18 minutes of angle correction. Here's the Brownell URL for these shims:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=6...OPE_BASE_SHIMS Your Savage will require the set with the 0.860" hole spacing

Later, I changed the Weaver bases for an EGW 0 moa one piece base since its multiple slots let me position the scope rings much more usefully but it also required the same shim pack to maintain the right zero. I guess I could have used the EGW 20 moa mount but I already had the shims.

[rjtfroggy]

Thanks for all the help! I appreciate it. I just had a hard time accepting that it would be the receiver. At least I have some things to try now.
[/quote]
If you need it explained PM me and I will go over it step by step with you, it really isn't hard to do. I think I mentioned this before if you want to try it out before your bases come in just cut a few small pieces of soda/beer can and use them for shims, no need to buy them.