12 LRP, if I'm not mistaken, has an aluminum mini chassis. Is skim bedding beneficial?
Replacing the barrel do I go Criterion or Shilen and why?
it has a HS Precision stock, out of the box it should ok,
look at chamber specs for each make for your caliber, (assuming twist rate is same), pick the one which is the best match to your choice of bullet/brass
don't rule out the factory barrel
and
WELCOME to the forum from west michigan
newbie from gr, mi.
OK a bit more information. I know it's an HS. I have not pulled the action to look underneath but I was told that that particular model had an aluminum mini chassis. Is that true? I was assuming there were some here that knew that for sure and how much skim bedding improved their performance. If there is no aluminum chassis then I will have it bedded for sure.Originally Posted by Stockrex
The barrel is going to be replaced. It is a 243 and the twist rate is 1 / 9.25. Much too slow for my purposes as I am going to set it up for 115 Bergers and DTAC's. I am going with a 28 inch with a twist of 1 / 7 or maybe 1 / 7.5. I was interested, again, in the experiences of the folks here and if any had a preference between the Shilen and Criterion and their reasons, or if it was a toss up.
I'm on the other side of the state from you but spend a good portion of my summers up on Lake Leelanau. Thanks for the welcome!
it's really a toss up. McGowen, Criterion, Shilen all make shooters. Sometimes you get one that just makes it a little easier to come across the perfect load and other times it take a bit of work. I always go with the quickest way to get what I want. I'm going to be running the Boron Nitrited DTAC's, 115 VLD's, and also giving the 105 Match Hybrids a run when my new Barrel gets here. I'm giving an XCaliber Blank chambered by Jim at ApacheGunworks. I sent in a dummy round with my requested specs.
Thanks. What twist are you going to run? I know a couple of gents that say they are stabilizing the 115's with an 8 twist but Litz calls for a 7 with the 115 Bergers.
I'm going to run a 7 twist at 27" with a JEC Customs Brake making it about 29" Over. COAL on my dummy round is 2.860.
Hi, Mark. Welcome to the forum. I'm on the east side. :)
They're all, good, really. I am not a competitive shooter, but I've yet to hear anyone here claim one is better than the other, including, even, some of their reps. I'd definitely recommend checking out Apache Gun Works. He has a good story on his web page about how he got started reaming barrels and his approach/MO. Good guy.
Can't think of any productive reason to skim bed an aluminum chassis. Don't know whether that one has the aluminum chassis or not. Someone who does will chime in, eventually.
Good luck.
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
Look up the bullet length, and fill-out the particulars, that will give you an idea for stability.
The skim bedding(or any other) is really a bit of a leap of faith.
Anything CAN help or hurt, but think of the principal of the matter. IF the stock has a chassis(not sure, sorry), do you think that it is a willy-nilly "we hope it generally fits" chassis, or was it built for the action? If it does NOT have a chassis, what are you hoping to accomplish with a razor think bit of glass like epoxy?
After years of fooling with stocks and bedding or not, I see very little difference personally. IF you have a POS tupperware lid holding the gun, a tiny amount of brittle epoxy is still on top of tupperware. We all remember the story about a house with a foundation built on sand. IF the stock is VERY close to a glove-like fit, but has a wee bit of gap here or there; How flexible do you think the action is? I know that little things CAN add up to larger issues, I just don't believe that it matters to all but a select few of the worlds finest shooters.
$0.02
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
yes on alu block inside,
No experience with dtac,
you will have to check if either shilen or criterion offers 7 tw in a 6 mm,
DTACs, Tubb's used a 7.5 tw to shoot a perfect score at camp perry
hey, I am going to intermediate lake to fish in a few months, very pretty up there.
Last edited by Stockrex; 12-01-2014 at 04:52 PM.
newbie from gr, mi.
Good on the block. I will skim bed it anyways--it can't hurt.
Shilen and Criterion both offer the 7 twist. Per NSS, the Criterion is 16 to 18 weeks and Shilen is substantially longer. I can have a Hart smith done in about 6 weeks but the price shoots up considerably. Haven't checked McGowan yet.
Tubb--yeah right. :) He shoots boron nitride coated DTACs that reduce pressure and allow increased loads which may account for the 7.5.
Using Millers chart with the Berger stats just gets you over the magic 1.4 number. Probably going to do the 7 as I won't be shooting anything lighter than the 105's.
Intermediate Lake is nice.
I can only speak for criterion as that is the only one I have shot but it is amazing! Call Northland shooters supply as they have many criterion barrels on hand. They might already have a barrel that will work for you, if not, the wait time is as others stated about 18 weeks which is NOT bad compared to many companies out there. As for my barrel it is a 7mm rem mag. I have only worked up one load with it with 160 grain accubonds with IMR 7628. BUT here is where it gets interesting...I tested a few different powder charges...the worst was .6inch group at 100 yards and the best was one ragged hole guestimate being .2inch group. that was surprisingly good. Either I was lucky in bullet choice and powder charge, which I doubt, or the barrel simply shoots well. This is with a Bell and Carlson stock that has an aluminum chassis like the stock you are talking about and my stock does not have any other further bedding. I also tried factory remington core lokts before working a load up and those shot all under 1 inch at 100 yards, I think the worst group was .8inches or so. I have never heard a bad thing about criterion or shilen but I have heard some bad things about McGowen but I also heard they made things right in the end. If it were me id go with criterion, shilen, pac nor, kreiger by whomever is either the cheapest or the fastest depending on what is more important to you.
Thanks for the info. Kreigers are six to seven months out. I know because I'm having a full custom built in 7mm Rem Mag and I'm looking to get it sometime in June. I will probably do the Criterion if I don't decide to have the smith do the Hart. I get antsy even though 16 weeks puts me in April and its still cold in Michigan in April. You might try the 180gr Bergers in your 7mm. They're lazers and stable out at longer distances.
I may give it a shot. My current load with the 160 accubonds is giving me ~2950FPS and one ragged hole at 100 yards. I have only tested it out to 300 yards so far and all my groups were under an inch. The goal for this rifle is 500 yards. The accubonds should still perform well with my given velocities at that distance. For 500 yard gun, 1 MOA is really all that is necessary for large game which was the original goal, but I was surprised to see it shooting so well with the accubonds. I have a remington 700 mountain SS that does not shoot so well. It is just around 1 MOA on a good day. I am highly considering re-barreling that as well but I dont know any gun smiths around where I am so I would have to send it out.
Nice shooting. There are a lot of competent smiths that would do the barrel work so sending it out isn't a big deal. 700's are one gun that benefit from bedding and truing up the action. You might check the barrel on your Rem and make sure its free floated. It will make a difference, especially on that short barrel. I have a CDL in 257 WBY and the barrel was setting on the stock in two different spots. I changed it to a Bobby Hart laminate with the bedding block and it dropped right in with a perfect float. Haven't shot it yet though. :)
All of those barrels have about the same tolerances. I think it has more to do with who chambers it that who makes it. I had a pacnor 25-06 super select match prefit from pacnor that shot .75" with very little load work. Sent the same barrel to sinman and had it poked to a 25-06ai and the first 3 shots on a cold bore shot .164", the second group shot .156". Just my .02
Cool, keeki.
Maybe, like everyone else in this world, it also depends on what kind of day they're having when they do it, or even a little luck. :) How does an NBA Allstar go 4/5 from behind the three point line in one half, and then go 0-5 the next half? No "airballs", they just don't fall... Were they a better player the first half? I doubt it. :) The difference with barrel makers is, "hit" or "miss", it's forever, at least as far as that particular barrel is concerned. :)
From my experience, I have a 12 LRP in 260 and it has an alum block. Stock barrel has shot 1/2" 5shot groups and 3/4" all day. I also have a 28" Criterion Bull for it in 260 that shoots 1/2" groups more consistently. Have a 26" LV Shilen in 260 for a model 10 that shoots about the same as the Criterion. Have a Criterion 26" 9 twist LV in 280 Ackley that shoots 180 Bergers 2825fps and 1" groups at 300. Have a McGowen 26" for the 12LRP that shoots 123 Hornadys 1/2", but 130 VLD's 1". All came from NSS except the McGowen. I would rate the Criterion and Shilen as a toss up, both shoot better than the McGowen which isn't terrible.
"There ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six"
I went with the Hart. Should have it back in about 8 wks.
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