Reply With QuoteThis was the last group i shot i was pretty much done and was ready to go home so i fast fired these with no rear support...not bad for a blind fat man with a stomach ache lol.
Well i got out and shot the 100pcs of brass i plan to use as my match brass for next year. Ive got some kinda intestinal infection so its hard to lay on my stomach but i did find a couple of loads that are workable with the 140g hornadys. Ive shot these loads before and nothing,the only difference is the BR2 primers which im pretty much sold on as they seem very consistent and next weekend ill take the crony out and get FPS and dopes on the better loads. In the last pic is this brass,loaded neck is .288 and fired neck is .297 and at .009 difference im worried about the necks spliting long before the primer pockets open up. Ill anneal them every 2 firings and keep an eye on them...also in the pic you can see how far up the shoulder the powder burn is,ive never had burn on to the shoulder its like these cases were made for a tight neck barrel.
Also i know these are not great groups but my gut is pretty sore and laying on my stomach hurts like hell so i was in a weirder position than normal lol...these are good loads and will produce 1 hole groups if not a tweak or 2 and they will.
Last edited by LongRange; 12-07-2014 at 06:45 PM.
This was the last group i shot i was pretty much done and was ready to go home so i fast fired these with no rear support...not bad for a blind fat man with a stomach ache lol.
Not to bad. I'll have to shoot some 200 yard groups with my 6.5-06 and see what comes of it. Nosler brass still loaded like it was brand new untouched after it's first firing for me. Get on to the second round this weekend.
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
Feel free to post up here with your pics and thoughts on the brass.
A couple of things with the brass i plan to use for matches is the necks are .011+ shorter than the brass i used to shoot the groups from last weekend and i only neck sized to .001 under loaded neck and think i had some runout so ill neck size .002 next time i shoot the match brass and see how it goes. Im trying not to over work the necks and another concern is donuts forming with the necks beening so thin and having to size them .009 to .010 to load.
Well so far im pretty impressed with the nosler brass...today i took 25 of the 50 pieces that im testing to see how much they can take and loaded them up hot and the primer pockets are still as tight as the first time i primed them so im sure they will hold up unless i loaded them stupid hot every time i shot them. Nosler must of had a bad batch of 260 brass at some point that got straightened out...i think ill be sticking with it from here on out...i love lapua but i get WAY more case capacity with the nosler.
Well i shot the 50 test pieces again today and really loaded em up with RL-17 and IMR4350 as i cant get enough H4831sc in the cases to even cause a sticky bolt...i wont post how high i went as i ran both powders way above book maxes. Whats interesting to me is how high above the listed max charges i had to go to even get a hard bolt lift...anyway im convinced that the nosler brass is good to go and will hold up as long charges are kept in the sane range lol.
The pics below lead me to believe this barrel on my 260 is about at the end of its life...these are both confirmed bug hole loads...the first three rounds of the 4350 load are on the right side the last two on the left...the RL-17 you can see the first three grouped then the last two when south...ive shot about 250 rounds since last cleaning but normally accuracy dont drop off until right at 400 so ill clean to steel and shoot next weekend and see how it does.
Next barrel will be a 28" CBI match and im going to have this barrel set back and free bore added as this is one of the most accurate barrels ive owned.
Last edited by LongRange; 12-14-2014 at 05:52 PM.
Also forgot to add i think the nosler brass should be annealed before firing. Reason for this is because i had powder burn onto the shoulders the first 2 firings and after setting the shoulders back and annealing i had no blow by even at high pressures.
How many shot through the barrel?
I think about 2200 rounds...ive got 2025 in my book and i know ive taken it out here and there and not recorded rounds...its getting close and the cleaning will tell for sure.
a little update on the 50 abused pieces...5 of the 50 have loose primer pockets after last weekends stupid hot loads and will most likely only last a few more firings before they are done but i guess thats to be expected. i did shoot one of the 5 pieces today pushing a 142g SMK at 2985FPS and had no issues with it...the other 45 are holding up pretty good...pockets are not as tight as the first time but are still tight.
i shot 20pcs of this brass today to check data against Quick Loads data and its off by quite a bit...QL said 2853FPS for the 46.5g RL-22 load and 2802FPS for the 45.8g load of IMR7828 so ive got a little adjusting to do on QL.
the low left shot is from a different group not the 5 46.5g RL-22 group.
i cleaned my barrel down to metal and it had a lot more copper in it than i thought as you can see its far from burnt out like i was thinking it was...below are my match loads...40.5g IMR4350 CCI200 142gSMK seated .009 off lands in 15x fired lapua brass...they are a little slow at 2735FPS average but very accurate and usually a 9FPS ES...today they had a 23FPS ES not counting the first 2 fired out of a clean bore...also i had a 20mph wind blowing directly at me when shooting today...the only reason i went out was to check crony data against Quick Load data.
good thing it was over cast i had to leave the sun shades off my crony and put rocks in it to hold it in place it was so windy...
Last edited by LongRange; 12-21-2014 at 05:59 PM.
I have been using Win 7mm-08 brass and even running them hot 44.5gr of H4350 they have held up well. I am very interested in your findings because the last batch of Win brass was complete junk. Some of it was too unsafe to use.
I was shooting once fired brass i was buying from brass reloaders in the height of the shortage in my 300wm because i couldnt find any other brass and was only get a couple of loads on it before primers would just fall out of the pockets.i bought some win and some rem factory loads and pulled them apart and even being new only lasted 2-4 loads and the loads were below book maxes.i finally found somd 300wm nosler brass and got 15 reloads out of 50pcs before i scraped them.
This 260 nosler brass is holding up well considering the loads ive been running through it...ive got a 100pcs im going to use as match brass next year so ill keep this up dated as i go...our varmint matches are on saturdays then the following saturdays are 600yd F-class then sundays are 1000yds F-class...i plan to shoot all of these matches next year so it will be a good test.
so ive shot all 50 pieces of brass 6 times now and primer pockets are still good on 45pcs and 5 are loose as i said above but still hold the primers with no leakage. they are taking a bath right now in my new STM tumbler...i tumbled they for 3 hours and the insides still had carbon in them so i gave them another hour to see if they clean up any better inside...the timers beeping now so we will see...
well this morning i discovered that ALL of my 260 brass have doughnuts...including the lapua brass ive got 15+ loads on. i have been thinking about neck turning for a long time now and am at the point of just deciding what tool im going to buy(K&M,PMA,or the 21st century)im leaning toward the 21st century because it will use the K&M inside reamer,but i like how the PMA tool adjusts better. anyway as i started neck sizing this morning i was thinking about neck turning and also about the groups ive been shooting lately then starting thinking about doughnuts so i took a piece of fired brass and dropped a bullet in and it stopped. i couldnt push the bullet into the case by hand so i pulled it out and looked in the case with a flash light and there it was right at the should/neck junction. ill be ordering a turning kit on monday just need to figure out which one to order...i also like the sinclair NT4000 but its ALWAYS outta stock.
for you guys turning necks what are you using? how do you like it? would you buy something else if money was no object?
I'm still happy with my 21st century.
The dial adjustment registers with my plate mic perfectly and the depth is easy to set.
If money is no object you must not be married!
First of all I'd buy a modified mic from K&M....http://www.kmshooting.com/catalog/mi...ification.html
A mic with a flat spindle, even with a round anvil averages the walls and only until it contacts the shoulder. The 60* spindle allows accurate measurements all the way to the shoulder and at any point along the entire neck length.
Turning tools?
I use a old Sinclair NT1000 for touchup or small batches, maybe 10 or less. For larger quantities ....
Bill
Each morning eat a live green toad, it will be the worst thing you'll have face all day.
If money is no object you must not be married!
First of all I'd buy a modified mic from K&M....http://www.kmshooting.com/catalog/mi...ification.html
A mic with a flat spindle, even with a round anvil averages the walls and only until it contacts the shoulder. The 60* spindle allows accurate measurements all the way to the shoulder and at any point along the entire neck length.
Turning tools?
I use a old Sinclair NT1000 for touchup or small batches, maybe 10 or less. For larger quantities ....
Bill
LOL...how'd i know you'd post up a lathe Bill...im marreid...been with the same girl for 18yrs now...why or how she puts up with me is beyond me. my thought is as long as theres food,the bills are paid and her and the kids are taken care of and we have a few bucks in the bank theres not a lot to say ...plus most of the money i spend on shooting supplies and tools is from side jobs.
i guess i should of said "if money was no object up to about $500 bucks"...id love to have a lathe and will some day but not next week lol.
Bill is there a digital mic you'd suggest or is that mitutoyo the way to go and between the K&M,21st century and the PMA which tool would you choose?
the 21st century is the best deal as far as outta pocket and uses most other makers parts. i like the K&M as well and plan on using the K&M carbide cutting pilot even if i get the 21st century tool so im leaning more towards the K&M as i like to 1 stop shop.
i like the 21st century tool and may end up with it as it will use the K&M cutter pilot...the one thing about the K&M i dont like is that its small but there are holders to solve that issue...right now its a toss up between the two...i like the PMA tool as well but its more of a piece together set up instead of a kit and i see more ppl use the K&M and the 21st century tools than any other.
how does the tool feel in your hand is it comfortable?
I don't know if a digital tube mic with a 60* spindle is available but there are other fixtures that will do the same thing, this one for instance...
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadin...prod39927.aspx
I guess it mostly depends what one prefers to use and the price. Either one allows you to measure accurately all the way to the shoulder. When I turn necks I just barely nick the shoulders, maybe a .001" or so.
Using a mic or indicator with a 60* anvil allows measuring all the way to that cut.
With that said, I only have a few with tight necked chambers. My 250Imp for instance is a .283" so I need to turn the brass with bullets seated to .281". For the rest "if" I turn its only maybe 50-70%, just enough to knock off the thicker portions and true them up a little. Other than that I don't waste my time.
Bill
Last edited by BillPa; 01-10-2015 at 10:19 PM.
Each morning eat a live green toad, it will be the worst thing you'll have face all day.
Yes!
Use it with a small Makita l-ion drill and 21st C case holder.
i usually put on a movie, light a cigar and get to work turning necks.
Thanks Bill...i think ill get the K&M mic...i like that it will measure the entire neck.I don't know if a digital tube mic with a 60* spindle is available but there are other fixtures that will do the same thing, this one for instance...
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadin...prod39927.aspx
I guess it mostly depends what one prefers to use and the price. Either one allows you to measure accurately all the way to the shoulder. When I turn necks I just barely nick the shoulders, maybe a .001" or so.
Using a mic or indicator with a 60* anvil allows measuring all the way to that cut.
With that said, I only have a few with tight necked chambers. My 250Imp for instance is a .283" so I need to turn the brass with bullets seated to .281". For the rest "if" I turn its only maybe 50-70%, just enough to knock off the thicker portions and true them up a little. Other than that I don't waste my time.
Bill
Thanks steel...im still not sure on which tool im going to get but its looking like the K&M as it will be a one stop shop plus 21st is closed until the 4th and im impatient lol.
Last edited by LongRange; 12-28-2014 at 04:14 PM.
Well ive settled on the K&M tools and will order monday morning as ive got a few questions for them before i buy. I also talked to shilen about my barrel and they dont offer a tight neck 260 but they do have what they call a tactical chamber which according to shilen is a tiny bit tighter and the neck is .297 their standard neck is .299 so im going back to the lapua brass which has a loaded neck size of .295 so ill just clean the necks up instead of full turning...i call brunos and talked to them as that is where i ordered the lapua brass i have now and they had 2 boxes left with the same lot number so i ordered those.
I well keep shooting the 50pcs of nosler brass im abusing to finish this review but i think ill sell the other 100pcs after i clean the doughnuts up.
Ill post when i get my neck tools and keep this up dated as i shoot the 50pcs.
so i called K&M first thing monday morning and spoke with Roger...super nice guy...very helpful and i can say that after talking to him he has made a customer for life...i had a few questions and concerns about the tools and after talking and him explaining he said "if your not happy with the tools for any reason after you use them give me a call and i will refund you money 100%"!!! so needless to say i ordered and he said im slammed after the holidays but ill do my best to get them out tuesday...and he did...and i got them today...4 days from phone to my door!! they are VERY well made and the ERGO holder is awesome and fits my hand very well so turning should be a pleasure.
Roger suggested that i dont buy the 60* mic they have as im not getting paid to shoot and id never notice the difference if my necks were not PERFECT...he did also say IF you REALLY want the mic ill gladly take your $150 bucks but he thought id be fine with the dial indicator i had lying on my bench...now that goes a long way with me as most PPL would of said"OH YEAH...you gotta have that" and never thought twice about taking that $150 bucks.
anyway ill be turning some necks and cleaning out some doughnuts tomorrow evening and then ill get back after this review....on a side note my new shilen barrel went into chambering today so i should have that in about a month...just in time for the start of match season.
Last edited by LongRange; 01-08-2015 at 11:05 PM.
well i got the 50 pieces of abuse-able brass turned last night and it went surprisingly well...i only gulled one case and its not to bad im going to use it.
another thing i did and it didnt work out as expected was i set the expander die screw to stop expanding just short of the doughnuts and then used the carbide cutter pilot to ream the doughnuts while turning the necks...after sizing the necks and seating a bullet the necks are 0.005 to 0.001 thicker at the shoulder(only tried one case)so im not sure if the doughnuts will form again or not? as i cut(what i figure)0.001 into the shoulder so im hoping they dont. another thing i noticed was that the necks were tapered as i set the cutter to just touch the thin side of the case at the mouth and as the cut went down the neck it removed more and more brass. that made me a little nervous after the first case so i sized and seated a bullet and the neck was .292(which was what it was right where the bullet and the neck met before turning)all the way to just above the shoulder which was .292.5...before turning the loaded neck size was .293 to .293.5 and neck walls were 0.014 to 0.015...after turning all neck walls are 0.013...all measurements taken at 4 points on necks....not bad for my first time turning necks i guess.
the K&M tools....very nice,everything works very smooth and the expanded cases fit nice and snug on the tool pilot. the cutter is very sharp and goes through the brass like butter(but IMHO could be a tiny bit wider)if you feed the cases to fast it leaves tiny groves in the necks. one of my concerns i talked to Roger about was the angle of the cutter and the cutter hitting low on the shoulder...its perfect...it cuts a nice clean cut into the shoulder but dont hit low like ive seen pictures of. another thing that i think could be improved upon is the pilot adjustment...its just a set screw...but would be nice if the pilot had an adjustment screw...dont get me wrong,its simple and easy to adjust but could be made to adjust easier...im pretty sure 21st centurys tool has an adjustment screw for the pilot? Steelhead will know he has the 21st century tool.
also if anyone buys the K&M...GET THE ERGO HOLDER...the tool is small and the holder is a must have IMHO...also get a small drill or cordless screw drive...i did and im glad i did...i cant imagine turning by hand.
drill...$29 bucks and works fantastic(so far)its got plenty of power and turns 180rpms...
a couple of finished pieces...hoping to hear some comments on the turned brass...good and bad...
Yes, the 21st century has a set and adjustment screw.
A drill is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned.
What brass was that?
I'm surprised they're not cleaned up more at .013.
Looks like 21 century profiles the cutter differently.
Mine cuts a wider swath on the shoulder.
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