Reply With QuoteWhat is the measurement on your unturned necks that are loaded right now?
Example....if your unturned, loaded rounds measure 0.254, I would order 250/249/248.
You are actually better off ordering five different sizes....unfortunately.
So, my next venture in hand rolling is to move on to turning necks, and using a die with sized neck bushings. I realize that in order to get super accurate, I need to cut the necks and then measure the cases while loaded to determing the proper size. I am going to place the equipment order shortly, and would like to know what the most common say 3 sizes I should get. Also, if there is anything special going on here, would someone with experience give me a quick run down? My exparamentation will be on my .223AI. Thanks
"If you don't have me on tape, then I didn't do it."<br />-Rumored to own a few, various firearms.
What is the measurement on your unturned necks that are loaded right now?
Example....if your unturned, loaded rounds measure 0.254, I would order 250/249/248.
You are actually better off ordering five different sizes....unfortunately.
Let me go measure...
"If you don't have me on tape, then I didn't do it."<br />-Rumored to own a few, various firearms.
Loaded rounds are comming in at .247" in Nosler Flavor, .246 in Hornady flavor.
"If you don't have me on tape, then I didn't do it."<br />-Rumored to own a few, various firearms.
For the most part I would steer you away from dies with neck bushings. Not that all bushing dies are bad, but some do have some problems. I have found that most bushing dies the bushing floats around inside the dies, and throws concintrisity off. The other problem is most bushing dies don't size the whole neck. The problem is since the bushings don't size the whole neck, the brass has no were to go, but to form a donut above the shoulder. I would get a dies that pushes the shoulder back.
If you still feel that you need bushing dies, I would suggest you look at Neil Jones, Harrell, Bruno Shooting Supply, and Forester (should bump), dies. They all use a method to tightly hold the bushing, and bump the should back. Other dies do not.
The way you determine neck sizing is: first you need to know the size of the reamer like a .250 neck 22br, or a .262 neck 6PPC. Now this is the controversy, some people say .001 Clarence is enough, and others say it is too tight and will throw off groups. Most people say .002 is right, and some say .003 is perfect. Once you have decided how much clarence you want. (say .002 then you would need a bushing that gives you the desired neck tension.) Most people say .002 neck tension is perfect. So if you have a .250 neck you need some Clarence like .002 making the measured case with bullet seated at .248. The if you put .002 neck tension you will need a .246 bushing. You would need to cut the brass to .012. with .012 x2 sides you get a .024 thickness add that to the bullet diameter, (.224) and you get .248. Hopefully this is clear as mud.
If this brass has been turned, 242/3/4 bushings will be your new friends.Originally Posted by Der Verge
If this brass is not turned, 239/240/1/2 will be your new friends.
I prefer 0.002" tight for bullet release. In other words, a loaded round with a turned neck will measure 0.246". Unloaded turned neck will measure 0.244".
My Redding bushing dies work well. The only time that I have issues with the dreaded donut....is in the AI's. Simply cut the donut out after you have fireformed, FL sized, neck turned, fired, neck sized...and then another light cut with your neck turner and cut the donut out at that time.
My last 22.250 barrel I had chambered with a .250" neck and SAAMI minimum chamber diameter. My loaded ammunition without turning necks was .252" -.253" in neck diameter so I sized all my cases in a regular die that made them uniform in the interior neck diameter and then turned the necks down .005". I checked them again by seating a bullet in them and kept adjusting the cutter until they came out with a finished neck diameter of exactly at .248". Once fired in my chamber they come out .2495".
Then I used my Lyman S type bushing dies. First I removed the decapping pin and neck sizing plug from die (I use a universal decapping die that doesn't touch the necks to keep the sizing plug from pulling the neck diameter larger after sizing them). I then resized my cases using a .245" bushing which gives me unloaded brass with a .246" neck diameter so that when I seat bullets in them the necks expand out to .248" and I have .002" of neck tension. This gives me another .002" (.001" on either side) to release the bullet and my bullets are lined up as closely as possible to the barrel's throat.
Frank
One rifle, one planet, Holland's 375
I have Redding bushing dies for several calibers. They work well. I have since found that the Lee Collet dies work as well or better for about the cost of two bushings. No donuts either.
I use bushing dies in several calibers. I love them. Neck tension becomes yet another factor to use in fine tuning for ultimate precision. At the benchrest matches I have attended you see primarily two types of dies. 1 - Customs that are ground (reamed) to produce an exact fit for a given chamber and 2 - FL sizer with neck bushings from brand X. I am a Redding guy myself, but other good choices as well. If you are seating bullets in the lands, then you usually want minimum tension. Redding recommends measured size minus 0.001" for the bushing. The older and harder the brass gets the more you have to resize it unless you anneal. I usually shoot with 0.001 or 0.002" undersize with all my VLD bullets. I run a little more neck tension on bullets that jump.
My 2 cents, tim
Thanks for all the info guys. I am a Redding guy also, and was going to get thier .223 AI FL die with changable neck bushings.
"If you don't have me on tape, then I didn't do it."<br />-Rumored to own a few, various firearms.
Just to clarify, is this .001 per side, or total? My necks are .247", so I want .246"?
"If you don't have me on tape, then I didn't do it."<br />-Rumored to own a few, various firearms.
Total. You want a .246" bushing to make .247" brass.Just to clarify, is this .001 per side, or total? My necks are .247", so I want .246"?
Frank
One rifle, one planet, Holland's 375
Or...as kelbro indicated, buy a standard 223 set of collet dies....for 1/4 the money.
My Lee 223AI dies combined with a collet die consistently yield brass with .002 or less runout. My only set of Lee dies and it makes me wonder how many other calibers that I have over paid for over the years.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks