Sticky bolt

**n10sivern** · 10-30-2014, 01:28 PM

Below is a picture of new build named Ares. 26" Criterion barrel 300 Win Mag in a Choate stock with a 6-24 Vortex PST. Cerakoted in OD Green and Magpul FDE. Took it out for a spin for the first time yesterday and today. I bought quite a bit of once fired brass, all same RP head stamp. Using Forster Dies, I full length sized them all, and trimmed to the same length. Currently I'm working up loads to see what he likes best. Problem is, about 1/4 - 1/3 of the brass stick in the chamber. The rifle is headspaced properly using Forster go/no go gauges. I can take the fired brass and feed the ones in and out that fired without a problem, but the nuisance brass feed in just fine but require a mallet to tap the bolt back. The bolt lifts without a problem, just won't move rearward. This happens regardless of powder charges so it's not over pressured. Any ideas? Brass or rifle?

Fenrir · 10-30-2014, 01:51 PM

Sounds like a primary extraction issue. The bolt should pop the fired case loose from the chamber at the top of the bolt handle lift. Closely examine the primary extraction cam surfaces while working the bolt. If the bolt is not being cammed back at the top of the bolt handle lift you have discovered your problem. Doing a search should turn up a good bit of information regarding this issue.

The other possibility is your cases are not being adequately resized and the back end of the fired cases are sticking in the chamber. Does the bolt produce a distinct “click” sound at the top of the bolt throw? You may need a collet resizing die like this one - http://www.larrywillis.com/ - to solve your problem. Again, a search will provide additional information.

spdu4ia · 10-30-2014, 09:49 PM

Depends , mine will not fire lake city brass at all even after full lengthing , does the same thing

**n10sivern** · 10-30-2014, 11:40 PM

I'm going to check it with feeler gauges in the morning and see if it is a clearance issue causing primary extraction failure.

northlander · 10-31-2014, 05:14 AM

Correctly resizing belted magnum cases can be tricky. Most loading dies have a hard time bringing the belted cases back to original specifications. You mentioned using quite a bit of once fired brass. Because this once fired brass was fired in some other guns chamber the first time some of it may be quite a bit oversized. Look at the brass that is sticking, does it show scuffing about 3/8" to 5/8" in front of the belt? If so your loading die is not getting the brass small enough for the Criterion chamber, thus these cases will stick.

I do not remember the name of the company that makes the collet die sizer for the belted cases but the ability to properly resize belted cases has been their claim to fame.

Jim Briggs
NSS

**n10sivern** · 10-31-2014, 09:46 AM

Jim, while I agree that sizing belted cases can be a problem, and may still be a part of the problem, the rifle did do it with 1 factory cartridge. I only had 5 factory, so I don't have a large population to compare it to the reloads. I can say that the reloads chamber easy with no problems. Even without firing they will stick the bolt on ejection, but they feed effortlessly. Would they not cause some tightness closing the bolt if the brass was that out of spec?

I checked with feeler gauges this morning between the bolt handle and baffle. A 0.25" feeler gauge allowed primary extraction of all of the brass that would stick previously. The bolt would easily return and eject the brass. I bet that when the baffle and bolt were blasted for cerakote that it removed just enough material to cause this problem. If 0.0125" were blasted off both the baffle and bolt this could combine for the 0.025" difference. I bought a fiber washer to try between the baffle and action. Any other suggestions?

**jonbearman** · 10-31-2014, 10:04 AM

Get another rear baffle and try it.

spdu4ia · 10-31-2014, 10:14 AM

Try a box of factory loads too and see if it will extract

**n10sivern** · 10-31-2014, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by jonbearman

Get another rear baffle and try it.

Since everything is cerakoted, I'd like to use the baffle I have.

**n10sivern** · 10-31-2014, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by spdu4ia

Try a box of factory loads too and see if it will extract

Had one episode with factory load.

**bsekf** · 10-31-2014, 10:32 AM

I had the same problem with a 22-250. I had run some hot loads while doing ladder tests and the web area had been expanded and didn't spring back. I solved the problem by re-sizing them in a 444 Marlin die to re-size the web. Belted cases are different but the above posts speak of a collet die that I presume re-sizes the web. I'll bet that will solve your problem. I would mark the cases you are having trouble with......to see if it reoccurs, they may be junk.

Bill

Fenrir · 10-31-2014, 11:21 AM

There was an article published in Precision Shooting several years ago written by Bob Greenleaf – See article here http://iowahighpower.com/shooting/PrimaryExtraction.pdf. He describes his method for adjusting the primary extraction on Savage rifles. I followed his example using brass shim stock attached to the baffle using RTV silicone. That was in 2008 and my modified baffle has been working perfectly well ever since.

**jonbearman** · 11-02-2014, 12:36 AM

Just trying a rear baffle wont hurt will it. Then if it helps get it ceracoated only this time tell them to do almost no blasting of the cam surface.

**n10sivern** · 11-02-2014, 02:26 AM

I'm going to try another baffle, but now that I think of it, the back of the receiver, front and back of baffle, and baffle side of bolt were blasted. Doesn't take much material loss on all 4 surfaces to add up to cause the problem.

**sharpshooter** · 11-02-2014, 10:41 PM

Bead blasting will not remove that much material. If .025" makes it work, shorten the bolt body by that much.
FYI: rear baffles run very consistant in size, bolt handles on the other hand , don't.

**n10sivern** · 11-03-2014, 02:03 PM

Wasn't bead blasted because cerakote doesn't adhere as well to it. 120 grit aluminum oxide was used. There are 4 surfaces that were blasted that could affect primary extraction and if each one got 0.00625" material taken off it would add up to the total. May be unrealistic, but just a thought. Tolerances are out on something. I put together 3 rifles at the same time. None had issues prior to being rebuilt, but some parts may have been accidentally interchanged causing the issue as well. The blasting or accidentally parts swap are my only two explanations. I had forgotten but I had a previous 300WM that I used this same brass with, but it had a factory barrel and the chamber was probably much looser than the criterion chamber. Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to work up loads or fire the other 2 rifles yet.

Fred, can you explain how to shorten the bolt body?

**Blitzfike** · 11-03-2014, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Fenrir

The other possibility is your cases are not being adequately resized and the back end of the fired cases are sticking in the chamber. Does the bolt produce a distinct “click” sound at the top of the bolt throw? You may need a collet resizing die like this one - http://www.larrywillis.com/ - to solve your problem. Again, a search will provide additional information.

I shoot several different belted magnums and have the die listed above. I have had the same problem with used brass not fired in my rifles, the collet die fixed my problems without issue. I'm going to be tied up for the next week, but if you want to send me your problem brass, I'll be glad to run it through the die for you and see if that fixes your issue. I bet it does.. Jim

**n10sivern** · 11-04-2014, 10:49 AM

Blitzfike, I may take you up on that. Problem is I just about can't find new brass, so I had to resort to once fired. I hate to spend $100 more on the collet die as I already have $130 in my Forster dies (neck, FL, and seating). Plus I'll only shoot this rifle 2-300 times a year. Just aggravating to have $2000 in the rifle, scope, and dies and it doesn't eject 20% of the brass. I know, things happen but it's still frustrating. I haven't had a problem with any of the other rifles I've built.