The only caliber ammo I shoot that can't be bought off the shelf is .221fireball, and I'm set with good brass and primers for that.
Will be shooting a .223 quite a bit now and have plenty of lake city brass and powders for it too. Since this isn't a rifle meant for precission shooting, am trying to figure if the cost to buy bullets/brass/primers will be about the same as purchasing off the shelf ammo at $300/1000. It's available again everywhere in these parts.
I reload .223 but I reload for the "fancy" bullets I can load for the price of factory ball ammo. I just buy ball ammo if I want to spray it down range and then I use that brass for the "fancy" rounds. I am having pretty good luck with CFE223 and it is widely available down here. Maybe when I get the progressive press up and running loading bulk .223 will appeal more to me, but now it is the scourge of the shop! Tiny little rounds that irritate the heck out of me.
[QUOTE=fgw_in_fla;256183]We told you so...[/QUOTE]
The pros of handloading are:
1. You get to make ammo that your guns like rather than being dependent on what the store has or something that cannot be bought like match 260 ammo.
2. The more you load the cheaper it is. Buying brass, bullets, powder and primers are cheaper in bulk.
3. Oddball and less common ammo is no problem once you collect all the stuff to load it
4. For some people, reloading is a fun hobby on its on.
Cons,
1. Cost of supplies, equipment, and personal time is expensive. You will not save any money unless you shoot a lot.
2. Reloading set ups need table space and storage space that could be an issue in small houses/apartments.
You can't save any money reloading compared to just buying the bulk stuff (mil-surp and the like). Even the Hornady Steel Case ammo (when you can find it) is priced cheaper than reloading and it uses good match bullets. However, when it comes to loads with good hunting bullets (ballistic tips, hollow points, etc) you're looking at around $1/round for the factory stuff - that's when it gets cheaper to reload.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
I calculate about 18 cents a round with Hornady 55gr or ss109s...
That can be brought down to 15 or so by buying 6k bullets at a time...
This is figuring 8lbs for approx $165...
My Lake City brass cost me 3 cents ea (less than 1 cent per firing). Primers about 3 cents. Powder 11 cents. Varmint grade bullets can be had for 16 cents. Match grade bullets around 30 cents.
Loading varmint grade rounds for around 30 cents puts them in the same price range as the ball ammo and is a lot more effective.
Loading match grade rounds for around 45 cents is a good bit cheaper than equivalent loaded ammo and, given good load development, will out shoot anything on the shelves.
I'll never compete with the 6BR or PPC shooting groups or with the 30BR shooting for score but I can enjoy the challenge of getting better performance out of this rifle than I've gotten before. And I can afford to do a lot more shooting.
They only valid reason to hand load or reload, is so you can load HOT. lol
Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
I dont even count the cost of brass... I have thousands of cases of 223 from the range
If ya can buy something that shoots for $1 a round reloading isn't worth the hassle. I loaded 120 7mm rds for my kid spose it cost me $63 or so. Add in all the time into tumbling and prepping the brass its pretty much a wash either way. But it keeps me off the streets!
Great, thanks. I found bulk 5.56/.223 ammo this afternoon and a bunch of bulk .22wmr Horandy to boot. Going over to the shop in morning and stock up. Want to load for the stockpiled 69/75/81 grain I have in the new RRA 8 twist. I'll get the cheapo to blast for fun.
The RRA shoots cheapo really good at 200yrds.
The numbers don't work for reloading if you're starting from square one. First, the cost of primers, bullets, powder, special tools, presses and other equipment is skyrocketing and some supplies are hard to find. You need good brass, too. Third, the more ammo you make the more you will likely shoot, canceling out any "savings," which are only realizable in the very long run. And last but not least, I saw a YouTube video of a guy making 5 rounds and it took him nearly 30 minutes of cleaning brass, sizing, cutting, pressing, re-pressing, measuring, before he was finished. I'd rather go into Wal-Mart, plunk down a few extra bucks and have ammo that has been professionally manufactured to the right specs.
I guess having ammo spec'd to my rifle and conditions is what keeps handloading interesting.
In the case of my 500/375 there is no over the counter. As mentioned above odd ball calibers open up a whole new world of shooting.
And having a non ultra that holds up to 90-97.5 grains of powder is pretty fracking cool.
I can reload rifle ammo with standard cup and core bullets for about half the price of factory ammo and it is usually much more accurate. For plinking pistol ammo using lead bullets, I can load for about a third of the cost of factory. I do not count the cost of my equipment since I have had the bulk of it for over 30 years and it has long since paid for itself.
How much you shoot is also a primary reason to reload. All my 45 brass was given to me, and my Hornady Progressive press was a Christmas gift. I spend $160 for 1000 .45 ACP bullets, $25 for powder and $45 for primers, equaling $220, to get 1000 loaded rounds. That is $11 for a box of 50. Cheapest price around here is $22-$25 for a box. Basically I can shoot 2K rounds that I load for the price of 1K store bought rounds.
Two years ago I bought 100 boxes of American Eagle .223 tipped 55 grn but because of a factory defect on one round in each and every box, I got them at $3 a box of 20, typically #12 a box. Now I have lots of .223 brass. I can buy the 55 grn Nosler Varmegeddons and load them for about $5 a box of 20. Around my parts, even cheap ball is $10 a box. I end up with a lot more accurate round that is tailored to my rifle for half the cost.
Both of these seem like a no brainer to me.
More shooting, less typing.
Cleaned sized lake city once fired cost me less than 10 cents, don't remember excatly. Always loaded for bolt actions, trying out a new fast shooting toy. Haven't found how far it spits brass. I'll stick to the heavy weights I have on the shelf for hunting rounds and buy some cheapo to play. The cheap 55grs grouped well at 200 yrds, better than at 100 yrds.
My last 8 twist liked 75gr Hornady and shot 81 gr Bergers pretty well. Still have a full box of Bergers.
I have been doing a running total for the last several years since I got into reloading. I've spent $5,066.96 on reloading equipment and supplies and reloaded 6,624 rounds for an average of $0.76 cents a round. The cost per round was much more expensive than factory for the first several years due to equipment and start-up cost. That includes average reloading cost across all calibers I've played with since I started reloading which include .204, 6mmBR, 260, 308, 6.5x284, 280AI and 7mm Rem Mag. If I included the my time at minimum wage, it would be cheaper to buy factory for all the reasons mentioned above.
If you want/need the perfect ammo, tuned to your rifle for top notch accuracy, and are a "grumpy old guy" with free time, who does not play golf, and has more guns than he can actually use, then reloading makes sense. It is not going to be cheaper - all things considered.
Exactly this ^Originally Posted by LHitchcox
IF you shoot alot its cheaper to reload, just takes time. but if you enjoy it then its not really work right?
For cheap plinking ammo like a 223, i usually use an assembly line. Size 200-300 peices of brass one night, another night clean and prime pockets, then load them all another day. If you dont count your time on your reloading press as "money" its basiacally always cheaper and higher quality.
Bulk 223 cal bullets, say $ .15 a peice, $.10 of powder, $.025 primer, your lookin at 27 cents a round or $5.40 a box.
When you get to premium ammo the gap is even larger. i can load premium berger ammo for 243, 280, 30-06 ect about 13-14$ a box for hunting rifles which is cheaper than the cheapest hunting rounds and way higher quality
Providing you already own the necessary reloading equipment, let this site do the math for you: http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp
Rick_W
CPO-USN(Ret)
You don't know what you don't know.
I shoot quite a few different rounds that would be prohibitively expensive to buy ammo for: .30 Mauser, .357AMP, .44AMP, 25-20WCF, 38-55, and .50BMG to name a few. I shoot a few thousand 25-20 a year, and there's no way I could afford that without reloading. I've had most of my equipment for decades, so most of the cost is components these days. Besides, reloading is relaxing for me. Strange, I know.
We are also forgetting here that money spent on reloading equipment is not money spent, rather it's money invested. While it's a poor investment, it's not a total loss since the equipment still has value. Only the depreciation on that equipment should be included in the equation.
[QUOTE=jpdown;283703.......... an average of $0.76 cents a round. The cost per round was much more expensive than factory for the first several years due to equipment and start-up cost. That includes average reloading cost across all calibers I've played with since I started reloading which include .204, 6mmBR, 260, 308, 6.5x284, 280AI and 7mm Rem Mag. If I included the my time at minimum wage, it would be cheaper to buy factory for all the reasons mentioned above.
If you want/need the perfect ammo, tuned to your rifle for top notch accuracy, and are a "grumpy old guy" with free time, who does not play golf, and has more guns than he can actually use, then reloading makes sense. It is not going to be cheaper - all things considered.[/QUOTE]
I am not old, well maybe, 44. I work 55-60 hrs a week, do golf occasionally and typically not grumpy, shoot IDPA once a month, local pistol shoots twice a month, shoot with my buddies, hunt, fish work around the house and take the daughters shooting at least once a week, but if you look at the calibers you reload for you would be paying a whole lot more if you bought QUALITY factory loads. 6.5x284, 280AI, 7mm Rem Mag are all $40 for 20, for good stuff. So if I can load 100 rounds per hour on my Hornady progressive press I am making the equivalent of $200 of ammo an hour. 10 hours into it and I have $2000 worth. So for $300 for brass, $350 for bullets $250 in powder, $90 in primers and $450 for progressive press/shell and $100 in dies for a total of $1540 I am already cheaper in parts, plus $100 ($10 per hour you pay yourself) and we are still cheaper. Now consider that $850 or so of that will not factor in your next 10 hours of work and you come out at $800 or so vs, $2000 for factory (slightly higher than your $0.76 each) add in your $100 dollar loading fee and you are still $1000 cheaper on your next thousand rounds. These are rough numbers but they close enough.
Now........if you don't care about the utmost in accuracy then buy a 7.62x39, shoot steel cased surplus rounds and have at it. I'd rather go golfing than shoot that stuff though.
Last edited by Jamie; 10-08-2014 at 09:55 PM.
More shooting, less typing.
Why are ya drag'n me into this?
Each morning eat a live green toad, it will be the worst thing you'll have face all day.
I new I would get you soon to be "grumpy old guy's" into this debate. HA! HA!
Yeah, I'm old. I even had a pet dinosaur, I named it Cuddles but Dad made me get rid of it after it ate my sister's cat!
All seriousness aside, I can't remember firing a stick of factory fodder in any of my CF rifles in the past half century. When being fetched up if I needed ammo I called Unk (yes, we had telephones!) and he would load some for me. As I manured ...err ....matured I started helping him and buying the stuff to load my own. Its been a downhill slide ever since.
I never considered the cost of reloading , in fact I have no clue what factory ammo even goes for today. I walk past it to the good stiff, powder, bullets and primers. I'm well stocked up on brass.
Bill
Each morning eat a live green toad, it will be the worst thing you'll have face all day.
As you've already read (so far), there are many arguments to be made and hardly to any conclusion (everyone has a different look/take on it). So I hope this can help you come to your own conclusion for what is "right" for you...
[1] The hard part of comparing these (hand-loading vs factory) goes beyond the consumables. Clearly both will "spend" powder, primer, and bullet. You can do the math, but I think you'll find that if you look really closely, you may arrive at the conclusion that those factors are a "wash" (break-even cost comparison). This leads to a more careful look at the "other" costs associated with hand-loading along with a cost/benefit analysis with respect to cases (brass). While a very lengthy discussion could be had on cases (brass), one would have to "examine" that particular cost factor as being some portion of the "re-usability" of brass in hand-loading practice. Buying factory doesn't give you the ability to "re-use" the brass. Therefore, one might conclude that hand-loading would have a cost benefit edge over factory loads (an opinion I share from keep account of my reloading costs). Additionally, one cannot ignore the added costs of machinery (dies, presses, etc.) in order to make ones own hand-loads. To be "fair" at actually costing that out, I think you would have to take into account residual value (re-sale) in order to determine the actual "cost" (over likely thousands of rounds) to the hand-loader (after all - a fair comparison should leave neither with surplus equipment/goods). So again... I think this would now potentially swing the balance back to a "wash" (depending on the extensiveness of the machinery - but I think that speaks more to those seeking ultimate precision and accuracy... something that most would consider a comparison of apples to apple pie).
[2] One has to consider the time factor. This - I think - is ultimately hard. After all.... most hand-loaders really enjoy this and it's a hobby where we typically consider our time spent as "free". You'll have to decide that for yourself.
[3] One also has to consider that hand-loads are - by their very nature - more accurate than factory loads (in nearly any instance...maybe not "always"). So that is a difficult factor to resolve. I mean how can anyone compare a factory round to one which has be custom tailored for "your" rifle (and shoots far better)?
Yes.... this isn't an "easy" to answer question. But if you take the plunge and try your hand at it. And after seeing what you can do, I think you may find that however you justify it, hand-loading just makes sense!
PS - I didn't even care to make the argument of how cool (and fun) it is to have ammo for your shooting when everyone else who has to buy factory ammo can't get what they need (and yes, it WILL happen again and again).
.22LR * 6.5x47 Lapua * .223 Rem * .308 Win * 260 Rem * Large Cojones!
[I]"I can prove anything by statistics except the truth."[/I]
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