243 vs ?? for wife's hunting rifle?

[Mach2]

6.5mm creedmoor is very similar to a 260.
243 is 6mm. Less boom than 260
No one has recommended the 6mm yet I have talked with shooters who prefer the 6mm far better than the .243
BTW 6mm is .244

[bootsmcguire]

Well I was suggesting the 250-AI which adds a fair bit of capacity to let the 250 case catch up to the 243 in volume, and the 250 is just more efficient. The 250-AI also has less felt recoil than the 243 by a fair bit IMHO (as stated above) which seems to be what the OP is really looking for.

Also comparing BC on a 400yd or less hunting gun when the BC's are not horribly far apart and targets are deer sized or better is kind of splitting hairs don't you think? Now step on out past 600 and the differences start to get more important.

As to bullet selection, how many choices do you need? Almost every maker makes at least 1 25cal bullet in each weight class. I mean Nosler, Hornady, Seirra, and Berger all offer high quality 25cal choices for varmints up through big game.

[bootsmcguire]

6.5mm creedmoor is very similar to a 260.
243 is 6mm. Less boom than 260
No one has recommended the 6mm yet I have talked with shooters who prefer the 6mm far better than the .243
BTW 6mm is .244

By 6mm is it safe to guess that you mean the "6mm Remington"?

Unless you AI the 6-Rem it just doesn't have enough over the 243 to justify it, and you are stepping up powder capacity over the 243 if you do go AI and thus adding recoil, plus 6-Rem brass can be tougher to find and if you seat longer bullets like 115 Bergers it may not fit in the mag of the SA the OP is using.

Literally 6.0mm = .236". In the firearms world however we use .243" as the 6mm diameter projectile size. Now the 6-Rem was also called the .244. Remington switched the name to try and boost sales when it revamped its rifles with the faster 1-10" twist over the 1-12" they were first released with.

[sixonetonoffun]

Hmn thanks Boots now I think I need a 250 sav ai. But seriously it has a lot of appeal. The slight increase in capacity along with "modern" powders & bullets. Should put to bed any misgivings from the past about its efficacy and efficiency taking deer sized game.

I would argue the 6.5's have a slight edge with bullet selection and over the counter ammo can be a plus.

[stomp442]

Well i wont claim to know more but i do know what i have experienced. You are correct in that the 243 has better ballistics due to better bc bullets but at the ranges we are talking about there really is not a whole heck of a lot of difference and i can guarantee the animals will never know the difference. The OP stated that he was looking for a caliber with mild recoil with similar performance of the 243 and that describes the 250 to the T. I know from experience that the 250 savage and the 115 berger can tackle deer past 600 yards easily and i wouldn't hesitate to use it on elk to 400 yards either i know it works at 200 quite well. I have never shot a 115gr bullet out of my 243 as i dont have the twist for it but here are the numbers i am getting with my 250s in deer weight bullets in my 24" barrel and the powder used. 85gr Nosler at 3300 fps using 34gr of IMR 4064. 100gr Sierra at 3030fps with 36gr of IMR 4064 and the 115 Berger at 2840fps with 37gr of Reloader 17. The little 250 doesnt give up much to the 243 but what really makes it great is how little powder is used to get those kinds of numbers. The 250 is a very efficient cartridge and one of the reasons i really like it.

[Mach2]

After reading this thread I think the .243 stood up quite well to other suggestions. It wasn't developed until the mid fifties so there must have been a big hole in the mid size market up until 1955 for bullet selection that the .243 filled very nicely. There's no major drawbacks to the .243. Brass is obtainable, wide rang of weights and B.C. in the projectiles if you reload, low recoil, long range, suits small to large game etc.

One surprise I found shooting my 8mm Mauser which would break the skin and put blue bruises on my shoulder is that if you use a slip-on recoil pad like Limbsaver you can remove much of the recoil from even a brute like a Mauser rifle. A good recoil pad might enable a shooter to shoot a 260Rem that previously wouldn't shoot 260. Then the shooter could reach out to 800yds and get those skiddish critters like Pronghorns.
If you slipped on a Limbsaver over the recoil pad on a .Stevens 243 you'd hardly feel any recoil at all. You'd think you were shooting a 22LR. The Stevens model 200 doesn't have the best recoil pad at all. If you ordered a Boyds stock with a Pachmeyer recoil pad on it for your model 200 you'd really have a soft recoiling setup.

[BillPa]

Back story:


While in WY we built her a nice 243 that was extremely effective on game while being enjoyable to shoot off the bench. She dropped large mulies out to 300y without issue.

Looking at everything, the 243 really fits the bill

Thoughts?

This reminds me of young lad I was talking to who felt he "needed" a new rifle for deer. The conversation went like this.

What do you shoot now?
"A 30-30"
Have you killed any with it?
"Six"
How many shots"
"Six"
What happened when you shot them?
"They fell down"
So, why do you need a new rifle?????

Why not just stick with Warren Page's creation? She used it with success before and enjoyed shooting it so why change?

Bill

[windy]

people, people, people! have ye no memories? the 257 roberts is all the rifle she'll need fer any application! not fer small reason wuz it called "the most useful rifle in creation"! build her one on a mauser action and reap the benefits of ned roberts' other 25; t'ain't been improved upon in all the years since it was first created.
mind yer topknots!
windy

[mattri]

Good points all.

The 243 has not been ruled out by any means, again it is what everything else is being compared to.

The real fun of the build will be setting up the rifle just for her. We've learned a lot since that first 243- our first project- so I'm really looking forward to getting everything just the way she prefers. It gives us something to work on together and hopefully will be a rifle she can use for a long time.

At this point the biggest contender to the 243 looks like the 6.5 Grendel. Haven't done enough research to know for sure but it looks interesting.

Thanks again for all the great input.

[Mach2]

The Grendel is a long range bullet that can use A-max projectiles that shoot as far as the creedmoor 6.5 and the 260rem.
There used to be a Grendel dedicated forum online. Haven't been there in a couple of years though.
The military was making all kind of noise about replacing the .223 with the Grendel and then they dropped the idea which is a shame
because anything the military shoots seems to be cheaper since everybody starts making it.

[Ranger412]

A few years ago I was debating which caliber to start my son off for deer hunting. Because he is right-handed and left eye dominant, he shoots left-handed. Instead of buying him a left-handed rifle, I went ambidextrous and settled on a T/C Contender. Since the Contender is limited to lower pressure cartridges the .243 was not an option. In reading and comparing ballistics, felt recoil, etc., I found that the 6.8 Rem SPC was a suitable alternative. He harvested a nice white-tailed doe and a coyote last season with it. Both were one-shot-kills with excellent bullet performance. Probably not as long range worthy as the other suggestions, but take a look.

[basshawg42]

A 6.5 creedmore i have one and so does my sister. She has had shoulder surgery the year before she bought it. It's a savage lady hunter which is pretty light but still no recoil. She loves it.

[390fe]

My two cents worth - she's comfortable with the .243, and if you run out of reloads, factory loads can be found almost anywhere.

[mattri]

Good call. Hope to have the 338 out this afternoon if you're around.

[JCalhoun]

mattri,

The main advantage to the .243 right now is that you can get supplies for it and factory ammo is common. All the other cartridges are awesome including the Roberts but you have to scrounge cases from every nook & cranny or do without in some cases. The only Roberts brass on the market right now is Nosler around $75/50pcs.

The only other cartridge with similar results and less recoil that is fairly available is 6BR Norma.

[mattri]

Good call on the 6br- thought long and hard about that one.

Being mostly a hunting rifle I think we'll go with the 243 as it has a little more boiler room for the heavy bullets and feeds well without modifications while giving up what will be a marginal amount of accuracy. Plus, like 390fe said she knows and is comfortable with the round and that kind of confidence is priceless.

Will be posting more on stock and optics options soon- hope everyone that has helped so far will chime in there as well.

[RevM]

I'd 2nd (or third) the 6.8 SPC recommendation for the recoil sensitive if anticipated ranges are no more than about 300 yards. There are prefit savage barrels in 6.8 available from BHW and from ARP right now. This is ARP's first entre into savage barrels and the company he had make them for him used the wrong button giving him lands that are thinner than he specified ... as a result he is selling them (2 for 1) at fire sale prices as blems ... though initial testing shows they are quite accurate. They are 20" melonite treated 3R barrels with threaded muzzles ... they are going for 2 for $225!

Another thought is the use of a muzzle device on a higher powered cartridge. I built a 260 Rem on a model 11 action earlier this year in a Choate stock ... it's no mountain rifle at about 12 pounds ... but I've been shooting it with the new Silencerco Harvester silencer (with an integral brake) and that gun has almost no recoil ... just a gentle pulse not much more than a 22LR.

[GaCop]

Being an "old guy" I say it's hard to beat the 257 Roberts for light recoil and good performance out to 300 yards or so.

[wbm]

Sounds like you already have a great caliber choice for your wife. Nothing wrong with the classic 243

He does and nope nothing at all wrong with the classic 243.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18

[Mach2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18[/QUOTE]

I think I'd find an elk in a place where I won't need a helicopter to get it out. Might have to field dress
that elk and wrap it up so it could be lowered by rope in two packages at least. That guy must be that
girl's father because he's looking through the spotting scope for a way down off that mesa. I think he knows she won't be much help fetching her kill.

[Appleseed]

What JC and Bill said apply for me. I used to shoot the .243 for everything in the NC mountains, but sold Bill my barrel, a stock varmint savage barrel had been shortened to 21" and fitted into a wood stock. It was a bit front heavy, but short and carried well. I had a tractor accident a few years back and can't take recoil. The medium heavy barrel helped, and it shot bug holes too.

If I do it over, it will be a .243 with 100-110's. You can always find .243 on the shelves if you don't have enough reloads. The other suggestions may fit ok, but what about ammo in a pinch?