Back story:
Shoot/hunt fairly frequently. My wife grew up in WY in a family where both her parents and all siblings hunted. She is an excellent shot and a very good hunter. We have access to and shoot at a 600 yard range more wknds than not. While in WY we hunted deer (mulies) antelope, elk and small game often.
We currently live in the mid-west and primarily hunt whitetails but are more and more looking at hunting again out west.
While in WY we built her a nice 243 that was extremely effective on game while being enjoyable to shoot off the bench. She dropped large mulies out to 300y without issue. We foolishly sold that rifle but have since found a replacement. Will be building off a 200 SA platform. Stock, trigger and optics are yet to be determined but at this point am considering which chambering to use:
Short action
Low recoil- 243 level is about all she likes, a 260 is too much.
Effective on deer size game to 300 (would love 400- she can do it)
Feeds from a SF blind mag
Looking at everything, the 243 really fits the bill- and I have absolutely no objection with going that route- but if there is a round out there that does as much or more with as little or less I'm up for suggestions.
Thoughts?
Last edited by mattri; 09-10-2014 at 09:04 PM.
250 savage will do everything the 243 will do with less recoil and powder. I have three rifles chambered in 250 and they have killed prairie dogs to elk with equal effectiveness. A 115gr berger at 2800 plus has no problem killing anything I have run across.
25-06?
Interesting replies, thanks. I haven't really looked at the .25s due to bullet selection but may need to reconsider.
6.5x55?
"An armed society is a polite society"
"...shall not be infringed" What's the confusion?
The recoil is apparently going to be the limiting factor. Within the same weight to recoil ratio you can't really outperform the 243.
You can get better economy of powder or barrel life but not lethal performance or ballistic performance.
From a ballistic minded perspective (becoming relevant at 3-400+ yards) the 25 caliber with the same recoil limit would be a step down in performance.
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Given that limited threshold: the 243 win wins unless you change the ratio by increasing weight to allow more energy to produce the same level of felt recoil or add a muzzle brake and the necessary hearing protection. Then the sky is the limit.
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My wife has a similar recoil threshold, We started using muzzle brakes and "game ears", now she shoots a 338 edge=300 grain bullet at 2840fps and she does so without any discomfort.
Yep I'd start over with a long action and go .25-06.
Don't let the cartridge size in comparison be intimidating. It's a great light recoiling caliber that will get the job done. My youngest son has been enjoying his since age 10 or11 and still hunts with it every year as a grown man. I like his so much I had to go get one of my own in this caliber a couple of years ago.
The 110gr accubond is an amazing bullet in this caliber with great accuracy and on game performance. RL 22 is my powder of choice and gets them running right at 3200FPS.
Good luck and I'm sure she'll be happy whatever you get her.
A good wife and a steady job has ruined many a great hunter.
I am a big 6mm guy so this is hard to say, but I like the idea above of the 250 Savage, but I would look hard at a 250-AI if you hand loading. Going this route allows you to run up to 120gr bullets if needed and nips right on the heels of the 25-06 and the 243 with similar weight bullets.
I have one in a 16.5" barrel and I am liking it. Brass is simple because you just neck up 22-250 brass. Recoil is minimal, I was first shooting mine in my Striker pistol and I've had 38 SPL's that kicked harder than it did. Accuracy was good. I have not found anything not to like about the 250-AI so far (other than its not one of my favored 6mm bores) and it adds a little "cool" factor to the wife's rifle for ya.
204, 22 K-Hornet, 222, 223, 22-250, 22-250AI, 6BR, 243, 243AI, 6-06, 6-WSM, 250-3000AI, 270, 7-08, 7RM, 30BR, 308, 30-06, 375 H&H, 444 Marlin, 450BM, 458WM
The Swede! 260 6.5cm all moderate recoil, great selection of bullets. Tons of load data.
Am getting 2800 fps out of a 20" 260 with 129gr SP Hornady bullets. A 24" barrel would do it without being pushed. Easily within your selected range.
My 15yr old daughters shoot 308 so am confident your wife would do well with any of the 6.5's in simular cartidges.
I'm lucky enough to be getting a Swede barrel from Jim of ApacheGunWorks. Will be my LWH rifle for next year.
The 250 ackley would be an awesome choice but with the added performance comes more recoil and if your wife thinks a 260 is to much then a 25-06 or 6.5x55 will be to much as well. I have a lot of experience with the little 250 and i have taken deer up to 667 yards with the 115 berger and it works like a champ. The 25s are much more potent than people give them credit for.
I think the 250 Savage is a long action. Several others mention a long action cartridge as well.
Other than the .243 I'm not sure what to build in a SA model 200 unless you look into the short mags which could use the short action.
I have a model 200 SA as well that I'm trying to decide on a cartridge. I already have a .243. Gotta come up with something new.
.300 Blackout? 30.30? The .243 easily outdistances those two though. Gotta keep thinking.
How about a .243AI(Ackley Improved).
Last edited by Mach2; 09-11-2014 at 03:22 AM.
OP did say he was building off of a SHORT ACTION. Hmmm....
Great replies thanks.
Recoil is absolutely the crux of the issue, which was also what led to choosing a short action 200- if a 260 is too much then pretty much any long action round is out.
Looks like the 250 Savage may be worth looking into, not going to have it together for this year's seasons so not in a huge hurry.
250 savage is not a long action cartridge. A 22-250 necked up to 25 is far from a long action cartridge. Even with the long 115s there is still plenty of room in a short action magazine.
Sounds like you already have a great caliber choice for your wife. Nothing wrong with the classic 243
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Not a long distance round....but how about 6.8 SPC. Little recoil, accurate, decent selection of target and game bullets and is chambered in bolt and auto rifles
Don't count out the 6.5 grendel. Low recoil and easy on powder, brass and the barrel with a good selection of bullets. Plus factory ammo and if need be brass can be made from 7.62x39 brass just by running it thru a die.
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:32 (New King James Version)
Good call thanks- I'll have to look at it.
25-06 is a fine one to consider. My 14 year old daughter shoots a 270 win but the 25-06 is a really good one. pay attention to the muzzle energy comparison (all info taken from www.ammoguide.com)
Average Muzzle Energy Comparison
Those are great rounds but definitely above her threshold.
Hey Stomp,Originally Posted by stomp442
If the 30-06 is the parent case for the 250 Sav how is the Sav a short action? Is there that much neck removed from the 30-06 to create the 250 Sav? I had earlier considered the 250 Sav in my SA Stevens but dropped the idea when I saw the 30-06 was the parent.
Also what would you compare the 250 Sav's recoil to? Is it closer to the .243 or .260? I feel like if I'm going to utilize a short action it should have low recoil otherwise I'd just grab one of my long actions with bigger cartridges. Also a SA weighs less so it has less to counter recoil.
Last edited by Mach2; 09-11-2014 at 08:32 PM.
The 250 savage is the parent case of the 22-250 so it has the same overall dimensions of the 22-250 just necked up to a bigger bore. About the only thing it has in common with the 06 is that it shares the same bolt head. Cases can be made from any .308 offspring or by necking up 22-250 or necking down 300 savage brass.
The 250s recoil is really a class of its own. Its less than the 243 but only barely more than a 22-250. Really mild to say the least. My wife and 11 year old nephew love shooting them and why i own three rifles chambered in 250.
Quite right. I just neck up 22-250 when actual 250 cases are unavailable for my 250-AI.
For recoil comparison I am shooting a SA 250-AI with a 16.5" varmint barrel in a Tupperware stock currently, and I have a LA 243-AI in a duramaxx that is a 26" Varmint barrel, and even with all the extra weight of the LA, Duramaxx stock, and 9.5 more inches of barrel the 243-AI still has noticeably more recoil.
204, 22 K-Hornet, 222, 223, 22-250, 22-250AI, 6BR, 243, 243AI, 6-06, 6-WSM, 250-3000AI, 270, 7-08, 7RM, 30BR, 308, 30-06, 375 H&H, 444 Marlin, 450BM, 458WM
Well I will throw my opinion in the ring. First I just went through a similar build for my father whom has some shoulder issues and very recoil sensitive. I, like you, love the 243 and have several. However, we settled on a 6.5 CM. It is an incredibly round. Recoil is next to nothing and definitely not anymore than the 243. I know some will not agree but I would be completely confident out to 500 or so yards with the CM on mule deer which is a couple hundred yards more than I trusted my 243's. My father's longest shot at a mule deer was just shy of 400 yards and the rifle preformed flawlessly.
I hope someone knows something I do not.
If so please tell, I have no experience whatsoever with the 250 savage but........ as far as I can tell (google) : It shoots the same weight bullet as a fast twist 243 but shoots it slower and the .25 caliber bullets have significantly less B.C. for the same weight making them loose speed and loose efficiency in the wind faster, not to mention very limited bullet selection.............How would this benefit a shooter engaging dear at 3-400 yards with an eye toward elk out west someday?
I really do not understand the recommendation.
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.P.S.....+1 on the creedmoor.
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