Reply With QuoteThat was my 1st target rifle- the one that started it all for me. I can rec. the BVSS in .308 highly. For the $ I could'nt beat it.
I am interested in starting target rifle practice at my local gun range. The longest target there is 400 yards. I have found a Model 12bvss in 308 at a local gun store. It has a Burris Fullfield II scope on it and they are asking $799. The gun is in excellent condition. Does that sound like a decent price and will this be a good starter rifle for what I am looking to do? I have mainly shoot pistols so this would be my first effort at bolt action rifle shooting. I would like to shoot in competions eventually.
That was my 1st target rifle- the one that started it all for me. I can rec. the BVSS in .308 highly. For the $ I could'nt beat it.
Welcome to the site.
For someone starting out in shooting a rifle, (and if your only going to shoot paper, and only out to 400 yards) a 308 would be the absolute last rifle I would ever suggest. Even for a experienced shooter, a 308 would be the last caliber I would suggest. For all the people that believe that recoil doesn't bother them, they are fooling themselves. The last thing a new shooter needs, is a heavy recoiling rifle, that will make them develop bad habits. Let alone, who want to sit at a bench and shoot 50 or 100 rounds, and have the heck beat out of them. I love to watch 308 shooters, they all get up from the bench after say 20 rounds and rub their shoulders. (Unless they have a 20 lbs rifle.) The only reason I would pick a 308, is if I was shooting in a competition that required a 308, and no other caliber.
A 223 Remington will fit the bill, light on recoil, flat shooting, cheaper to shoot, accurate, and will do everything you need as far as target shooting well past 400 yards.
What is the power of the scope on the rifle? What do you consider target shooting, do you want to shoot small groups, or just hit a paper pate? If your into shooting small groups, I would suggest a minimum power of 20 on a scope.
Very True, a 223 would be better. I had target AR's already when I got the .308 BVSS.
Here would be my suggestion to get started, in 223 as suggested above.
http://www.savagearms.com/12fv.htm
As you get into shooting, you can upgrade, but don't think that this rifle isn't accurate. My boys use this stock rifle to shoot Dum Dum suckers at 100 yds.
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day- Harry Truman
82boy hit it right on the head.
I can shoot my 16lb 308 all day long with no troubles, but it still isnt near as much fun as shooting my 6br or a 223.
”I have a very strict gun control policy: if there’s a gun around, I want to be in control of it.”
~Clint Eastwood
Been a long while since I've seen or heard of a .308 as a 'heavy recoiling caliber'. ::) People who get up and rub their shoulder after 20rds from a varmint weight .308... thats definitely a new one. Are ya sure they're using a recoil pad?
The 12BVSS as described, sitting on the shelf at the local dealer, would be an excellent choice for getting started into accuracy shooting. The .308 is easy to load for, and can be readily used from 100 to 1000yds + without much trouble. There's not much you can do to screw one up
IF you decide to get something *new*, a .223 is a great choice as well - but I'd lean towards a 6mm BR for straight-up shooting paper targets.
All three are great choices, and capable of very good accuracy at 400yds and in. The .223 gives up a little in the wind - even with heavy-bullet loads - but other than that its probably the cheapest to feed. 6mm BR is possibly the most accurate - by a small margin - and is very comfortable to shoot. .308 Win is no slouch - its been used for target shooting from 100 to 1200yds in nearly every venue imaginable, and will probably continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
I am interested in shooting small groups. I am mainly a pistol shooter. I thought that the .308 was fairly low on recoil. It looks as if the recommendation is to go with a .223. I have no experience in loading my own rounds so with that in consideration would .223 factory gun with factory ammo produce decent groups? Sorry for the rambling but I just don't want to invest money in something that isn't best option for this.
If you aren't a hand loader then 223 is the way to go without a doubt. Much cheaper to feed. Like comparing 9mm and 45 Auto as far as the cost difference between 223 and 308.
The 308 isn't a heavy recoiler - especially in a varmint/target weight gun, but the increased recoil and blast over a 223 does tire you out faster. You can certainly tell a difference after shooting say 50 rounds from a 223 and 50 rounds from a 308.
the 308 will cost more to shoot if you dont reload (nows the time to get started) i personally started shooting targets with a 308 becuase 1 it was a good deal and 2 wind can kill a good group even tho my tigershark is a heavy gun the first time i shot 75 rounds in one sitting (not 20) my arm felt like jello i couldnt even shoot my ar . but i swapped out the recoil pad for a better one and often shoot 75 - 100 with out a problem .i've been thinking about biulding one in either 223,243,30br or 6br (i shoot 100-300). savages are great guns i take my 300win mag out from time to time and my sons 243 will 1 hole if the shooter does his part.
lal357, what are you shooting out of your 243 to "one" hole?
Second, I have a FCP308 and have no problem shooting 66 rounds out of it, matter of fact it's fun and is very accurate. I normally shoot fun matches @ 600yds with it. Again it's probably the most accuracte Savage I own! I have my best luck with 175gr BTHP's @ 600yds.
Now, my 300 Win Mag is a different story! I will rub my shoulder a little after shooting 10 or 15 rounds!!!!!!!! But it's pretty accurate also!
[B][SIZE=3]Dennis[/SIZE][/B]
I appreciate all of the answers you guys have given me. If I wanted to load my on rounds what would be the intial start up cost? Also is there in any classes you can take to get knowledge on this subject matter.
Generally speaking, the *first* thing you want to get for reloading is... a reloading manual. Most of the newer ones have very good tutorials, with photos, in the front showing how to do each of the basic steps. Other books that are worth getting for a new loader are 'ABCS of Reloading' and 'Metallic Cartridge Reloading'. Many gun stores, and most online vendors like Midway, Cabela's, Sinclair International, etc. carry these at a minimum. There are other books for once you get the basics down, but any of those will get you started.
One of the things you'll notice early on is that some of the load data you see on the Internet is considerably... 'warmer' than what you may see in a loading manual. Keep in mind that the load manual data is tuned down a bit (lawyers) and intended to work safely out of nearly any rifle, current production or otherwise. The stuff you find 'in the wild' on the 'Net is often very specific to a particular gun, and the details/dimensions of that particular setup. Hence, the old adage about 'start low and work up' becomes even better advice! Until you develop a feel for such things, I'd say stick with the load manual data if you can, unless you know a person and trust their judgement. As an example, some of the data I use for my long range ammo is relatively off-the-charts, because it's a specialty niche and I know what I'm doing (supposedly).
Basic startup costs vary wildly. I'll defer that one to someone else
Dhicks, the lee kit is a very workable, entry level set up. should run around $125.00, this will get you started, but you'll find you will always want something else...
lee die set about 35.00,
lb of powder about $25.00.
primers $35.00 for 1000,
bullets vary depending on your choice, $20.00 and up for 100
brass can be had once fired or new,$ 25.00 to $75.00 per 100 is common.
You'll find a lot of help here if you ask... Bill
I have read everybodies input. No real mention of making the BVSS - 308 into a Switch Barrel Rifle. That way you can have it both ways. Use the 308 or step it down to a 243, 6 BR or even a 223. Being as we are talking a Savage here this operation takes 20 to 45 minutes depending on if you also need to swap out the 473 Bolt Head for a 378 Bolt Head.
The whole benefit of the Savage design is the modular concept and its easily convertable features - let's look at that and then revisit this question.
Jim Briggs
NSS
YES!!!
One barrel in .223 or 6mm BR for varminting, killing paper, etc. - IBS Varmint For Score, ground hog matches, etc.
One barrel in .308 for bigger game, longer range paper - F/TR, etc.
Thats all very true, most of us have more barrels than rifles, and plans to buy the next one, only held up by money or wives... But the man dont own his first bolt gun as of now and we just set him up with a gun,4 barrels, tools to change said barrels, a room full of reloading crap, books to read.... damn,guess there is always room for one more savage junkie. Bill
I didn't think the .308 BVSS had much recoil and I'm 5'7" 170lbs. Here is a pic.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h163/2139882/DSC_0148.jpg[/img]][img width=600 height=399]http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h163/2139882/DSC_0148.jpg[/img]
I have that same rifle in .308 as well and after 200+ a few weeks ago I was slightly sore for a day or two. After 100 or so rounds I had to add some padding between my shoulder and the recoil pad.
I just added a muzzle brake after shooting another forum members braked .308 it was night and day difference for sure.
I'm 5'8" and 150 lbs...shoot a 10FCP in .308 F-Class. had some minor aches from extended shooting, got a "PAST" recoil shoulder pad. No problems now. In fact shooting a 30/06 or a 12 ga. slug gun is no problem either. It simulates wearing hunting clothing too. (Well, at least gear for northern Minnesota November hunting.)Originally Posted by savageboy
Integrity is easier to keep than to regain.
....before you read my comment...know this....I don't particularly care for the 308 round....but....
308 is an excellent choice. I would try to find and buy as much Hornady 168 gr TAP ammo as you can find...or...if you reload...as many 168 gr AMax's as you can find. Some Win 760 will fill the case rather nicely with GREAT accuracy and better speed than Varget/etc....and a ball powder to boot.
A 308 on a BVSS frame would be hard to beat...would not want to pack it hunting though. 14-18 pound rifle with scope/etc.
308 will deliver thousands of rounds down range before the barrel is shot out...easly 6-10 thousand....or more!
Forgot to add, put a REAL butt pad on the rifle...there is several brands available that will soak most of the recoil up.
Do like the 223 idea as well. 1:8 or 1:7 twist running 69/75/77/80/90 gr bullets would be just the ticket....even in the wind.
I have been in your position and went with the 308.....It is expensive......[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]go with the 223[/size][/size][/size].
Johns
Buy the 223. Buy Quality ammo off the shelf and enjoy the shooting. Buy a reloading manaul as mentioned previous. Than slowly start buying your reloading equipment once you have detirmined whats the best to buy. Buy quality reloading gear, take your time and do research. Start shooting at 50 yards and move out to 400 +. By the time you have reached the max distance of shooting small groups with the 223 you will be ready to buy a barrel in 308 and move on to shooting at farther distances. Take your time and enjoy the shooting.
Jim
Excellent advise!!!
Well, I think I am going to pick up the Model 12 bvss .308 tomorrow. I appreciate everyones input. I think I am going to slowly start getting the materials needed to reload and gather more information. From what I have read so far if you pay attention to what you are doing reloading is a safe hobby to have and it will eventually save money. I will post pics tomorrow of the new rifle. Also it comes with a Burris Fullfield II scope. Does anyone have any experience with these? Are they decent or junk?
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