I am building mountain rifle and want it on a savage. Does anyone know how much the savage actions weigh including the trigger?
I am building mountain rifle and want it on a savage. Does anyone know how much the savage actions weigh including the trigger?
I can't help with the action weights but will tell you that my lightweight Savage 116 came in at 7#2oz scoped.
Specifically a 116 action with a Tubbs 100% Ti FP and the 5/8" Stockade BH.
24" #2 contour Rock nutless with 6mm bore.
McMillan Hunter's EDGE stock with 1/2" pad, Rem 700 aluminum TG, blind mag, and two swivel studs.
S&K rings holding a Leupold VX-3 2.5-8x36 scope.
No lightening cuts or flutes anywhere.
My goal was 7# and it could make that weight with a set of Talley LW's and a Leupold VX-2 Ultralight scope.
I like the S&K's and the VX-3 too much to make the change but this build points out just how light you can make a LA Savage while still sporting a full length 24" tube.
There is just no way that any Savage 110 based rifle can compete with my ULA Model 20 or my 6#1.7oz Kimber but 7# with a full length barrel is pretty darn good.
Good luck and I'd like to see the rifle when you get it built.
There are scads of heavy barrel Savages out there with 2-3# stocks and 2#+ scopes in ringmounts which push a full pound themselves but very few lightweight builds. We need more lightweights!
Basically I was interested in seeing if a savage SA could be built to a weight that was similar to the kimber Montana or mtn ascent. It seems like it's unlikely based on your assessment.
Have you looked at the Lightweight Hunter?
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
The Savage LWH action is only about 1.5 oz lighter than a Savage standard action. Most of the weight savings come from stock, 20" FW barrel and plastic bottom parts.
The LWH looks good. :)
People whine about them but the plastic stocks are very light. Mine are 2006 or earlier models. I like mine.
A 3006 barrel weighs less than a 270 barrel because more metal is removed to create the bore channel.
Watch your scope weight. A straight tube weighs less than a large bell objective.
Aluminum two piece mounts weigh less than one piece.
Short rings weigh less than tall rings.
Mach2 makes all good points. If you can stomach the factory IM stock it is pretty light.Originally Posted by Mach2
Leupold scopes are consistently the lightest scopes in their class. I don't know how they do it but they do.
The old model Leupold Ultralights just aren't great scopes but when they were redesigned and made part of the VX-2 line a couple years ago they became much much better.
Talley Light Weight rings are the lightest quality mounts around and they're strong too. A bit homely IMO. The S&K mounts are fantastic in every way but they are like 2oz heavier than the TLW's.
The rifle I described earlier is an uncut long action receiver sporting a full 24" of tube with only a 6mm bore through it and it wears steel rings/mounts holding a light but not ultralight scope. IOW, the components were not what could be chosen if ultimate light weight was your main criteria.
My Kimber of Oregon 84 is a full pound lighter than my Savage but it sports an action which barely fits the diminutive 6x47 (.222RM necked) has a 22" tube, TLW's holding a VX-2 Ultralight, and a 19.3oz stock.
My Savage compromised nothing and still comes in at just over 7#. Flutes on a #2 contour saves very little weight and saves it all in front of the forward action screw. Exactly the wrong place I want it. Lightening cuts on the receiver also saves very little weight and it looks like heck IMO.
My advice is to skip flutes and action cuts and put the money saved towards a high quality lightweight stock like a McM EDGE.
Finally, to me, the Savage LWH is light done wrong on many levels.
Thanks for the comments, I hope to build the mtn gun in a 280 AI so I save recoil and still get the performance I want. I agree that the stock is the best place to save weight. I looked at the manners light stocks and their lightest was 24 ounces. Which stock weighs 19.3 ounces? I like that weight. I was also planning on saving weight on a light contour barrel, optics, mounts and rings. I was curious if any of the savage actions weighed less than the others. This gun has to be an all around hunting gun as I only want one hunting rifle, that always me to have more varmint and bench guns. If anyone has a suggestion on calibers I am open, however I want light recoil and still bull elk knockdown. I have looked at plenty of ballistic charts and recoil charts and I am leaning towards the 280 AI but understand there are plenty of people who know more than me. Thanks guys
The 19.3oz stock on my Kimber of Oregon is a MPI. This stock is not a blind mag stock so add an ounce or so if you go with a blind mag. The stock I chose for my Savage lightweight is the McM Hunter's EDGE which are advertised around 23-24oz. Mine came in at 21-22oz.
My recommendations are for a 24" #2 contour barrel, a McM Hunter's EDGE, Talley Lightweights, and a Leupold VX-2 Ultralight scope. With the bigger bore you'll save a bit of weight.
.280AI, properly loaded is every bit as fast as factory loaded 7mm RM. This is due to the SAAMI MAP of the .280AI being 65K psi versus 61K psi for the 7RM. It really is a wonderful cartridge.
Last edited by Savage6x284; 09-16-2014 at 03:52 PM.
Thanks for the information, looks like I am on the right path.
An 18" barrel weighs less than a 20" barrel. Some hunters do carry shorter barrels for easier hiking into remote areas. In my neck of the woods a mile is as far as I ever hike. maybe one day I'll move out West where it takes me all day to hike in.
And likely blows the balance of the rifle. Not to mention the ballistics compromise and the increased report and blast inherent with short barrels.
With a lightweight rifle balance is of the utmost importance and a #2 contour should IMO be a full 24" to shift a bit of weight forward putting the balance point just forward of the front action screw. This is assuming a lightweight stock in the 21-24oz range.
I feel a 24" tube is where you want to be when the cartridge is a full length 65K psi cartridge like the .280AI.
The Savage 11/111 LWH's are plenty light and have good balance. The 20" LWH barrel weights around 2 lbs. I have a Savage 11 LWH in 260. I replaced the 20" barrel with a 22" factory sporter barrel in 260. Increased barrel weight by 5 oz (2 lbs, 5 oz). Picked up a Sportsman Guide 23" Savage pre-fit SS #2 contour barrel in 280 AI (sold out) that only weighed 2 lbs. Put it on a Savage 111 LWH. Both rifles are plenty accurate with hand loads for hunting (0.5-0.75"@100 yd). My next project is to switch out the 22" 260 barrel and try a 22" factory sporter barrel in 7mm08. Seems to be a wider selection of good 7mm bullets (120, 140, 150, 154 and 160gr) to play with for both rifles when compared to the various 6.5mm caliber hunting rifles I've played with in the past. Based on my attempts over the past 10 years, buying a Savage LWH is cheaper, easier and faster than trying to build a Savage LW rifle from scratch if a light, compact, easy handling rifle is your objective. My Savage LWH's also cost less than a Kimber and are more accurate than the Remington Model 7's in 260 and 308 that I sold and replaced with the Savage LWH.
Last edited by jpdown; 09-18-2014 at 02:54 AM.
Good info here. Thanks for posting it.
Melvin Forbes, the originator of light done right, still lives (must be in his mid '80s by now) in the mountains of West Virginia. His ULA rifles broke all the rules but have proven to be the template and the yardstick by which all great LW rifles are measured. He did counterintuitive things like full length slim barrels which are all full length bedded. No free floating for Melvin on his premier ULA and NULA rifles. He designed and manufactured his own super LW stocks and assured that the critical balance was there by using barrels no shorter than 22" with the vast majority measuring 24". Not a flute or lightening cut to be found anywhere on a ULA/NULA. Melvin designed LW into his rifles and tweaked them to perfectly balanced perfection. His NULA's start somewhere north of $3K and he sells every single one he can make.
My LW Savage is a close approximation of a NULA but it is a bit heavier. My Savage does balance at the same point as my ULA Model 20 in 6mm Remington though and that pleases me very much.
You win Mach2.
Now let the OP decide which direction he wants to go with his LW likely to be chambered for the .280AI.
If further questions from the OP are directed at me I'll be happy to assist however I can. I expect you'll do the same if he directs any questions towards you.
As I said earlier, building a LW based on a Savage action isn't going to net you a rifle as light as a NULA. It simply cannot be done when you start with an action a full pound or more heavier than the NULA action.
A person can however build a very sweet, perfectly balanced LW rifle with no compromises and if planned well that rifle can tip the scales at 7# even.
Carrying a perfectly balanced LW rifle over hill and dale for a few days is a revelation and one I wish more Savage aficionados got to experience.
There are scads of 10#+ Savages out there and many if not most folks here love to build them and revel in the accuracy and appearance obtained. That is a worthy and worthwhile goal and guidance for such a build is available here in abundance.
There are far less LW BG hunting rifles built here and guidance for a LW build is far more difficult to find. I'm doing what I can to provide such guidance based upon my own build and my experiences with other state of the art LW rifles built by other manufacturers.
Savage 11 LWH 260 REM
Sku:19208
Handed:Right
Rate of Twist:8
Weight:5.5 lbs
Stock: walnut
Overall Length:40.25"
Barrel Length:20"
Ammo Capacity:4 round(s)
MSRP:$962.00
I copied and pasted this from Savages website. You can slap on a synthetic stock and you're below 5 lbs just like the $3000 Forbes
First of all the Forbes rifle is $1400. His New Ultra Light Arms (NULA) rifles start at $3500.
Secondly the LWH has a 20" tube, flutes, lightening cuts, a wooden stock and has lousy balance IMO. IOW, a study in compromises that I'm unwilling to make even if it were $100.
Thirdly that action won't fit a .280AI cartridge.
Fourth, it doesn't come in left hand.
But, by all means order one up Mach2 and keep us apprised of your findings.
Please tell us about all the LW rifles you've owned or built. I for one am all ears.
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Colt56, should you have further questions or wish to hear further thoughts on building a no compromise LW Savage feel free to PM me here and I'll do what I can to help. It seems my experiences and advice ruffle some feathers for reasons unknown to me.
The fact that I own rifles other than Savages is hardly out of the ordinary. I presume many here own rifles of other makes.
The fact that my passion with regard to rifles is LW rifles means that I own LW rifles from whoever makes them in a LH configuration.
These facts notwithstanding, when I chose to build a LW rifle from scratch I chose to do it on a Savage action.
There isn't a lot of information out there concerning LW Savage builds and I felt that my experience in this rarely trodden arena may perhaps prove useful for others attempting to do the same. That my yardstick is a relatively expensive custom built ULA is a credit to Savage and not a slap at them.
That I largely succeeded in making my Savage every bit as desirable as that ULA yardstick says a lot about the inherent goodness embodied in the 110 etal action and should give others wishing to build their own LW Savage encouragement and a certain knowledge that the rifle so built can compete in every way with the finest LW rifles available anywhere.
There was, and is, no intention of belittling anyone or any rifle.
I posted this thread knowing very few shooters on this forum build light weight rifles. That being said I appreciate everyone's knowledge and comments. I believe, from what I have read, the blind magazine action is the lightest. It looks like I will build off that action. So I will be looking for a blind magazine long action. I really like the look of mcm edge stock and like the numbers. I think I will do a #2 contour and it will be a 22 or 24 inch barrel. I realize reaching the kimber mtn ascent weight won't happen and that's okay. I just want a much lighter rifle than I have packed to this point. I will keep this thread updated on my progress and will pm if I have further questions, thanks all.
Its pretty easy to hit 7# or so with a scope on a short action internal mag if you buy all ultralight components and a short thin barrel. If you want to hit 7# with a long action and a decently long barrel you will probably have to go to a Carbon Fiber stock. Most likely with any 7# build you will need a Leopold Ultra light scope and ultralight rings.
Here are some weights.
SA w bolt egw base and mach lug with blind mag 36 oz
LA flt bk w bolt EGW base, lug, w DBM bx/mag – 40 oz
LA flt bk w bolt EGW base, lug, w internal mag – 38 oz
STOCKS
SA tupperware stock - 29 oz
SA duromax stock - 43 oz
LA DBM factory stock with complete magazine – old style - 38 oz
LA tupperware stock w some epoxy - 32 oz
LA duromax stock - 44 oz
Choate LA tactical – 4#
Choate Ultimate Varmint – 4.5#
Choate Ult Sniper – 6#
BARRELS
19" 308 cut down sporter barrel and nut – 36 oz
EST 16" 308 cut down sporter bbl - 32 oz
EST 20" 308 Pencil Barrel - 30-32 oz
24" 338 WM barre1 and nut - 51 oz
24" 358 wheln shaw bbl and nut - 58 oz
21" 458 wm barrel and nut - 48 oz
Cut 20" 358 whelen bbl and nut - 50 oz
Factory blued 22" 270 bbl - 41 oz
21" stainless 270 factory barrel and nut - 38 oz
30” bull barrel 308 and sav long action with mag and EGW base
30” bull barrel 308 – 107 oz ?
SCOPES
2-7x VX-1 leupold scope - 11 oz
1-4x VX-2 - 9 oz
Nikon prostaff 4-12x mildot - 14 oz
Sightmark 1-6x - 20 oz
Leupold 3-9x Ultralight - 9 oz
Sightron 10-50x – 29 oz
20xSS 22 oz
Misc
Factory recoil lug - 1 oz
Machined recoil lug - 1.5 oz
Burris extreme med rings, 1/2" - 6 oz
Burris extreme med rings, 30mm w 1 tac top - 6.2 oz
Burris zee rings steel low - 3 oz
Lightweight 308 Build - 6.8#
20" 308 pencil barrel - 32 oz
Short action with bolt weaver base and machined lug with blind magazine and action screws - +- 34 oz
SA tupperware stock - 29 oz
3-9 VX-2 ultralight - 9 oz
Lt rings - 3 oz
Last edited by tammons; 09-24-2014 at 09:38 AM.
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