I just bought a 243 AI barrel and after looking over the dies available for the 243 AI I noticed most applied a crimp. I would prefer not to crimp my rounds. So the redding type S dies were the only dies that didn't apply a crimp. My question is how the bushings work on these dies. Also I have never neck turned so the whole process is new to me. Any help on the subject would be appreciated.
Most seating dies can apply a crimp, but only if you set the die deep enough to allow it to do so. It is purely optional, though. Most hand loaders are like you and do not choose to use a crimp for single shot or bolt action rifles, regardless of their choice in seating dies.
Last edited by foxx; 11-13-2014 at 10:05 PM.
Its a bushing die and only sizes the neck and deprimes the case...you need to know the loaded neck size and then deside how tight you want the neck to be then order the appropriate bushing. I have had the best luck with going .002 under loaded neck size....003 under loaded neck size causes inconsistent seating and .001 caused run out problems for me.
Can I measure the neck size with a standard caliper? Do I need to neck turn to use a bushing die?
Yes. No.
Use your caliper to measure a loaded round on the neck. Most of my brass measures about .014" thickness of the neck wall, and since you have brass on either side of the bullet, you are looking at something like .014+.014+.243(bullet thickness)=.271, so .271-.002=.269 would be where you'd start. Of course, this is just an example, so do your own measurements and calculations. You may find that more, or less neck tension works better for you. Also, there are some bushing dies that full-length resize as well. Choose whichever you prefer.
Thanks for the information. I have reloaded for awhile but haven't ever used anything more than just basic die sets, so I am grateful for the information. At some point I will neck turn once I understand the concept behind it.
As long as you are using standard chambers, not "tight-necked" chambers, which are chambers where the neck is intentionally cut undersized to reduce brass stretch, there is no real benefit to neck turning. There are even a possible downside or two, I.E. the formation of brass buildup called donuts at the base of the case neck.
With a standard sized chamber, the only thing that may have any benefit at all would be to ever so slightly turn the case neck, so as to only take off the high spots. As in, your neck wall thickness may be .014 in one place and .0145 in another. You'd simply take it all down to .014, but no more. I've done this, as well as more aggressive neck turning, and found it to make no noticeable impact on overall accuracy in my rifles. Also, the thinner you make the neck walls, the sooner they will split. I wouldn't bother with it unless you're shooting a specially chambered rifle.
Honestly, I am glad to not to add more reloading steps so neck turning can wait. Thanks for the help barrel-nut, longrange and foxx.
With bushings you have to take in account the spring back of the brass after sizing the neck. It will be approx. .002 more you reduce your bushing size. So with the example in barrel nuts figures ,In that case I would start with a .267 bushing.
Willing to give back for what the sport has done for me!
If a loaded case with a bullet in place is .xxx size then you should only subtract .002 total. .004 would be a bit much.
Not sure why bushing dies came up unless it was part of a set since they are re-sizing dies, not seating dies, and don't have anything to do with "crimp" but whatever, I'd like to throw in my 2 cents.
Bushing dies compress the case neck in one step to provide a desired "neck tension". Conventional dies reduce the neck size significantly below the desired size and then, by pulling the sizing button back through it, expand it to achieve the desired "neck tension". Bushing dies are considered to be superior in this regard as they minimize the "working" of the brass which should result in longer case life.
Another advantage is the bushing dies eliminate the need to lubricate the inside of the case necks. If not removed this lubricant can result in variations in neck tension. Importance varies with the application.
To turn or not to turn. Even premium quality brass varies in neck thickness. My most recent batch of Lapua 223 brass varies from .012 to .013 with some necks being .012 on one side and .013 on the other. Given a bullet diameter of .224 adding twice the neck thickness gives me a loaded round neck diameter of .248 to .250. If a .002 variation in neck tension is acceptable for your application then you can enjoy the extension in case life but you won't be seeing any improvement in accuracy.
A typical set of standard reloading dies costs around $30 including the sizing and the seating die.
A Redding Type-S sizing die from my supplier is around $55.
Each bushing costs about $12 ($25 if you go high-test), you'll need at least 2, maybe 3.
You will still need to buy a seating die.
K&M neck turning tool $44.
Mandrel for appropriate caliber $12.
Shell holder for turning tool $40
Neck expander with mandrel (used to prep case for turning) $22.
Yes, I do use bushing dies, along with a lot of other gadgets each with the potential (hopefully) to shave another .010" off my group sizes. Adding them all together my group sizes should be smaller than my bullets. Hasn't worked out that way yet.
Again, just my 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.
Very good point about the crimp or lack thereof with a sizing die. Totally overlooked somehow. Doh!!Originally Posted by JTCrl
Not sure why bushing dies came up unless it was part of a set since they are re-sizing dies, not seating dies, and don't have anything to do with "crimp" but whatever, I'd like to throw in my 2 cents.
Bushing dies compress the case neck in one step to provide a desired "neck tension". Conventional dies reduce the neck size significantly below the desired size and then, by pulling the sizing button back through it, expand it to achieve the desired "neck tension". Bushing dies are considered to be superior in this regard as they minimize the "working" of the brass which should result in longer case life.
Another advantage is the bushing dies eliminate the need to lubricate the inside of the case necks. If not removed this lubricant can result in variations in neck tension. Importance varies with the application.
To turn or not to turn. Even premium quality brass varies in neck thickness. My most recent batch of Lapua 223 brass varies from .012 to .013 with some necks being .012 on one side and .013 on the other. Given a bullet diameter of .224 adding twice the neck thickness gives me a loaded round neck diameter of .248 to .250. If a .002 variation in neck tension is acceptable for your application then you can enjoy the extension in case life but you won't be seeing any improvement in accuracy.
A typical set of standard reloading dies costs around $30 including the sizing and the seating die.
A Redding Type-S sizing die from my supplier is around $55.
Each bushing costs about $12 ($25 if you go high-test), you'll need at least 2, maybe 3.
You will still need to buy a seating die.
K&M neck turning tool $44.
Mandrel for appropriate caliber $12.
Shell holder for turning tool $40
Neck expander with mandrel (used to prep case for turning) $22.
Yes, I do use bushing dies, along with a lot of other gadgets each with the potential (hopefully) to shave another .010" off my group sizes. Adding them all together my group sizes should be smaller than my bullets. Hasn't worked out that way yet.
Again, just my 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.
Fwiw I own a wide assortment of rifle seating dies, and none applies a crimp.
The Type S dies are very good dies. If you are willing to go to the extra expense, they will serve you well. If you desire a cheaper and easier solution for neck sizing, then this is hard to beat:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/784...243-winchester
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