Has anyone here built a straight walled rifle such as the 460s&w or the 444marlin on a savage action? Ohio has just legalized straight walled rifle cartridges to be used during deer gun season and im thinking about possibly building one, using a savage short action if its possible. Any info would be great, thanks
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
Thanks for the info scope eye. Do you know if jim at apache makes barrels for the .460 s&w? I really like this caliber for deer in my area.
Look at the 450 Bushmaster. 460 level power, uses a standard bolt head and feeds perfectly through a SA-CF magazine.
204, 22 K-Hornet, 222, 223, 22-250, 22-250AI, 6BR, 243, 243AI, 6-06, 6-WSM, 250-3000AI, 270, 7-08, 7RM, 30BR, 308, 30-06, 375 H&H, 444 Marlin, 450BM, 458WM
Is the .460 a standard bolt head? So I can basically use any stevens 200 or savage short action for this build correct?Originally Posted by bootsmcguire
Yes Jim will make you one. It was between the 460 and the 444 for my striker build, and I went 444. He would have done 460 also.
204, 22 K-Hornet, 222, 223, 22-250, 22-250AI, 6BR, 243, 243AI, 6-06, 6-WSM, 250-3000AI, 270, 7-08, 7RM, 30BR, 308, 30-06, 375 H&H, 444 Marlin, 450BM, 458WM
The 460 might work with a magnum bolt head, and for that you would need a pushfeed Magnum bolt head for the short action, or modify a long action magnum head to fit the short action.
With the 450BM you would use a standard 308 sized (.473") bolt head. If you are planning to reload the 450BM can be loaded to easily surpass the 460 by a good ways and still be totally safe and brass friendly in a bolt action. Jim at Apache Gunworks is the only one I know of making the 450BM barrel and Jim does top notch work. I have 4 barrels built by him and will have plenty more in the future.
204, 22 K-Hornet, 222, 223, 22-250, 22-250AI, 6BR, 243, 243AI, 6-06, 6-WSM, 250-3000AI, 270, 7-08, 7RM, 30BR, 308, 30-06, 375 H&H, 444 Marlin, 450BM, 458WM
I think I will prob go with the .450bm like your saying. Ive been reading up on it and they seem to be the best straight walled cartridge for hunting imo. What kind of accuracy can you expect at 100yds with a custom build 450 with an apache barrel on it? Also what is the max effective kill range on this particular type of hunting round?
It headspaces off the mouth in a bolt action, case length is 1.7"
Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
I would recommend 450 BM too. I have one and the barrel was built by Jim at Apache.
He's one of the best all around! I've got a few rifles barreled with his products and there
all outstanding quality and accuracy.
As for accuracy, I shoot 2 inch groups with red dot off bench at 80-100. With any type of
magnification that group would certainly be smaller.
With that being said off shoulder I can hit 12"x12" steel at distances of 50-180 no problem
with my 450. That cartridge should easily kill at 250yds with right placement. All my shooting
is with factory Hornady or Remington ammo.
For the life of me I can't figure out, what they were trying to achieve or accomplish, and what they were getting at with the restriction on straight wall cases, for the love of god this whole country fed themselves for the first two century's hunting with that type of casing, good grief.
Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
I think they are trying to define their intention... That is, to allow a some sort of "limited, low-power rifle". The construction of the cartridge is not the issue. Michigan, for example, has allowed "straight walled cartridge" pistols in southern Michigan for many years, but, for safety sake, does not want deer hunters firing long-range (300 yards) rifles in the more heavily populated areas of southern Michigan. For a long time they have only allowed straight walled pistol, (taper okay), muzzle loaders and shotguns down here. Now the modern muzzle loaders and rifled shotguns are shooting accurately to 200 yards without a whole lot of mayhem, or destruction to property, so the argument is why not allow certain smokeless cartridge rifles that are similar to these? That's reasonable, but how do you define such a thing? The intent is clear, but defining it and making the rules easy to enforce and follow is another story.
With any luck I'll let you know in a month or so. Just ordered one myself. Neither Boots' nor Apache's advice or work have let me down yet. and, no, they're not partners or anything.
Using a 16" ish barrel, velocities listed on some Hornady factory stuff I have states 2100fps, for the 265FTX. Running through my basic ballistics generator, it will stay to over 1000 ft/lbs out to 225yds. So on a white tail you should be looking at 200yds easy.
With my apache barrel and those factory loads I was getting just under 1" groups at 100yds. Now I am certain handloads will do better and be faster since factory stuff is loaded to handle AR platform pressures and the bolt actions will handle quite a bit more as will the brass. I need to work on some more handloads for it but my 444 build has been taking precedence as of late. I am willing to just about guarantee that a 450BM will do everything you need it to.
Like foxx said, I am in no way affiliated with Apache Gunworks or Jim in a legal or business sense, I am just very happy with his work, prices, and turn around times (so are all the others I've talked to) and he has treated me great and I like recommending somebody who does business like that, especially with the quality he puts into his machining.
204, 22 K-Hornet, 222, 223, 22-250, 22-250AI, 6BR, 243, 243AI, 6-06, 6-WSM, 250-3000AI, 270, 7-08, 7RM, 30BR, 308, 30-06, 375 H&H, 444 Marlin, 450BM, 458WM
I'd go with .450 Marlin. Works with a standard magnum bolt face, fits and feeds from a standard magnum magazine. Load it down to 45-70 levels or crank it up to its full potential. The Hornady plastic-tipped pointy bullets let you reach out past 200 yards. In any case, it would be a great cartridge for a bolt rifle.
Ammo much easier to come by.
Am unsure whether it would fit in a short action; If so, I may have a barrel for my model 16 made up in .450 Marlin.
Be careful with your cartridge choice legally.
Michigan has passed a similar law but does not allow 450 Marlin or 45-70. There is a limit to the case length. That's why I am going with 450 BM as opposed to 45-70 Govt or 450 Marlin.
Yep your right there. I was planning on going to build a 450 bm for my ohio rifle but found out that it is not allowed along with the 450 marlin. Im thinking about just building a .460 s&w if I can go that route
Should heed my own advice, maybe. I am assuming 450BM is allowed, based on initial specs I read somewhere here. I hope they don't exclude 450BM.
Foxx....450BM should be fine....unlike OH, MI didn't limit us with a list of very specific cartridges. I am still waffling on my straight walled rifle caliber...but 450BM is certainly on my list of option. I hunt mostly in the "modern rifle zone" I am not in immediate need...YET! :)
What are the spec's on the barrel you ordered?
Apache is making me a set of 450 BM gauges, that will be ready by weeks end, so if you want to send me your Info and I will lend them to you, and that goes for anyone else that may need them.
Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
Foxx , how do ya headspace for 450 bm?
I don't know. Haven't crossed that bridge yet. Boots, Clintserv and Apache would know. If I am desperate enough, I might just use an unfired case and see what happens.
So Ohio says it HAS to be straight wall?
The one who dies with the most toys still dies--except in Christ.
Here you go, http://www.4-dproducts.com/displayit...5&tname=rental
Hey I am not only here for my, boyish good looks and charming personality.
Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
There ya go! Should have known Deano would have the answer and a source. :)
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