Model 12 lrp accuracy problem

[Nick6.5]

I recently bought a model 12 lrp in 6.5 creedmoor, and have put about 80 rounds through it so far and I am not really seeing the accuracy that everyone talks about. I'm shooting factory hornady 140gr a-max, and the best i can get is about 1.5" group at 100 yards. I have a nice vortex FFP scope, quality rings and base which were all installed properly. My question is will my accuracy improve after more rounds or should it be good right out of the box? I notice that I have to clean it pretty aggressively after every 20 rounds to get all the copper out of the barrel, could that indicate a problem? I didn't do a formal break in, just cleaned every 20 rounds. Do I need to hand load even though people shoot great with the factory stuff? Action torque? Please point me in the right direction, thanks.

[BoilerUP]

What lot numbers of factory 140 A-Max have you been shooting?

LOTS of reports in LOTS of different rifles that 313xxx lots shot like hot poo.

[Nick6.5]

I did have a couple boxes of the bad stuff....popping primers, but I sent it back to hornady and have been shooting lots in the 314,000's with not much better results

[chukarmandoo]

The one thing I would try now that you've shot it about 80 times and cleaned it about 4 times is just shoot it fouled for a while an see if it doesn't start to settle in. Mine doesn't like to be cleaned until about 300 rounds. But as BoilerUP said could be the ammo?

[earl39]

You might also want to try a lighter bullet. Something in the 123gr range or it could be it just don't like Hornady ammo of any weight.

[Dennis]

Do I need to hand load even though people shoot great with the factory stuff?

Nick, even when I change barrels on my match rifles with the same spec barrel, the load and COAL changes with everyone. Some just slightly.

The 6.5 Creedmoor should easily shoot less than .5 MOA at 100 yards, even with the factory ammo. I still have several OEM Savage rifles that shoot great with factory ammo.

As suggested, trying different ammo or hand loading might be your cure. Make sure you are thoroughly cleaning your barrel.

I have heard from several that carbon fouling (in the first 8" or so of the bore) is sometimes an issue.

Action torque: This is still being kicked around by many, but FWIW, I tighten the front @ 30 in lbs., and the rear @ 20 in lbs. On my PTA's, the front 2 are @ 30 in lbs., and the rear @ 20 in lbs. I have never had a problem with these settings. Over tightening them will cause a problem. I always use a torque wrench especially on the PTA's.

I am not sure if your stock can be bedded, maybe someone that knows will give their opinion. It may help, if it's possible, I just don't know if it will make a difference on the 1 1/2" pattern you have.

Do you have other rifles that will shoot .5 MOA @ 100 yards? Are you using front and rear rests?

Dennis

[kevwil]

Your cleaning does sound a bit aggressive to me. I've heard that, for precision shooting, you should leave copper in the barrel and only clean out the carbon. The reasoning being that the copper acts as a lubricant under heat/pressure but the carbon will corrode the barrel. A good copper stripping once a year, perhaps, but otherwise use carbon solvents only. I don't yet know if this advice is true, so your mileage may vary, offer void where prohibited.

How are you shooting? Bipod, sand bags, lead sled, etc? Learning about stable shooting platforms and better trigger control has helped my accuracy as much as any other factor, so don't overlook the fundamentals.

[pisgah]

To me, 1.5 MOA groups with the very first factory load tried in a rifle is an encouraging indication of excellent accuracy potential. Now, it's time to look for the "right" load.

[eddiesindian]

yep...start loading your own of different this and that and see what gives.
LET THE GAMES BEGIN!
This is where the fun starts..........course its not fun if you cant nail/find your load but Im sure you will. (for me)...Ive never had any luck with a-max bullets in either 224 or 308. Ive gave them a go but couldnt get any consistant small groupings. I tried 4 different propellants and various weights of pills. lucky for me my shooting partners had a-max,ers so I gave them a try. but it was in vien.
Ive always done much better with SMK,s
Good Luck

[BoilerUP]

If folks bought any precision-style 308 from Savage, Remington, Tikka, FN, etc. and ran FGMM through it, would you be happy with 1.5 MOA assuming you KNEW you as the shooter were capable of better?

No, probably not.

Five-shot, one hole groups aren't a realistic expectation with factory ammo from a mass produced factory rifle, but I don't think an expectation of sub-MOA accuracy with a $900+ 12LRP in 6.5 Creed using factory Hornady ammo is out of line.

[Nick6.5]

Thank you all for your input. Someone asked how i shoot...I have a Harris bipod and use a bag at the rear. I'm particularly interested in the comment made about leaving the copper fouling in the barrel and just cleaning out the carbon. Does anyone else have any opinion on this? When I do clean the barrel, it is completely spotless when I'm done, is this a bad thing? As far as my ability goes, I am extremely comfortable saying I am capable of better than 1.5".

[eddiesindian]

If i clean the copper from my barrel, Im just asking for inconsistant larger groupings. I as well as others only use cleaning solvents that clean powder residue. I,ll leave the copper in. I will thourouly clean the copper from my barrel once I notice a drastic change for the worse in my groupings.
Cleaning rifles is so subjective. What works for one may not work for others. Same goes for reloaders. One of my shooting buds is hell bent on always keeping his barrel clean. 30 strokes of this and 30 strokes of that etc...He has great techique when it comes to shooting but I cant convince him of shooting his rig with copper fowling. Its common for me to out shoot him and Im sure one of the reasons is his need for cleaning.
If and when you do find your load (sweet spot)...try not cleaning the copper from the barrel...you may be suprised.

[Nick6.5]

Thanks again for the input, as much as it pains me to do it I'm gonna leave the barrel fouled and see how she does. Then I'll explore some different rounds. I'll update my results but unfortunatly I can't get to the range for a while.

[Mountain Thunder]

I'm with eddiesindian on this. My Creed LRP shoots way better with less cleaning.

[Nick6.5]

Update: I put about 80 rounds through it today, started off horrible as usual then I noticed some improvement. By the time I reached 60 rounds, I was holding a steady 3/4" group with an occasional flyer....much better. As much as it pained me to do it, I cleaned just the carbon out and left all the copper streaks in the rifling. I will shoot again next weekend and update again....making progress.

[Nick6.5]

I also resolved my problem with Hornady regarding the bad lots of ammo. As expected, they tested what I sent back and found it to be "within spec", which is fine but every other lot I've shot didn't pop primers and jam bolts....either way, they sent me 3 boxes of good stuff for the 5 boxes of junk I sent them, which I guess is better than nothing. For so called "match" ammo, I am very disappointed. Just another example of the decline of american standards when it comes to production and quality.

[Glockin' Bob]

I just clean the carbon out and leave the copper until accuracy starts to fall off. Then I use a bit of Sweet's to get rid of most of the copper. With some of my rifles, it takes a while for them to settle back in after cleaning the copper out, some barrels are more sensitive to this than others. It seems like most factory Savage barrels like to have the copper in them and are a bit on the rough side, tend to pick up copper pretty quickly.
IMHO, .75 MOA with factory ammo isn't bad, some rifles do better, some much worse. Handloading can really improve the groups in many cases but then you'll always be "chasing the dragon", different powders, primers, brass, seating depth, bullets, etc. We're always chasing the dragon looking for those one holers.
BTW, those occasional flyers may indicate a problem with bedding.