I saw in a post about bedding where frank1947 said he doesn't tape his lugs. I'm glad to hear this because I only tape the sides and bottom.
I have yet to be convinced that the recoil lug comes backward against the stock at the moment of discharge. I think, if the action were loose in the stock, the front of the recoil lug would hit the stock at the moment of discharge.
We are instructed by scope manufactures, when installing their scopes, to take the slack out of the mounting "in the forward direction". The logic here is that at discharge, the barreled action recoils backward, and the scope, being screwed on top of it, wants to stand still, and therefore, wants to move forward when the barreled action recoils backward.
The stock is screwed to the bottom of the action, and I don't see any reason why the stock should behave differently than the scope at the moment of discharge.
If the scope, on top, wants to go forward at discharge, and the stock, on the bottom, wants to go backward, does that mean the physics would reverse if the rifle were fired "upside down"?
I bed the front and back of my recoil lugs, and that should take care of it no matter the physics.
In reality, when I mount my barreled actions to my stocks, and my scopes to my actions, "Nothing Moves", if you get my drift! ;-))
I am also aware that there are untold numbers of rifles out there in which the recoil lug "touches nothing". I have owned a few of them, until I recognized, and corrected the problem. In 1970, I bought a Rem 700 ADL, 30/06, and mounted a 2 to 7 Weaver on it. That rifle shot 5 shot groups, with factory ammo, prone, off sand bags, that could be covered with a quarter. When I found out what a recoil lug does, I put "play dough" in the stock hole, installed and removed the barreled action, and guess what- it was "blue" all the way around. When I bedded the action, it didn't do anything to help or hurt the groups, but it probably saved a nice stock. I never should have sold that rifle.
JMHO on the subject ;-)).....Thanks.....Jim
Last edited by FW Conch; 05-21-2014 at 10:34 PM.
I assume most people mask off the front and sides so they don't end up with their receiver permanently attached to their stock. Obviously, if you had to choose between the front and back, you'd want the back of the lug bedded. If both front and back were bedded I assume that wouldn't leave you with much room to work with during assembly/disassembly. Have you ever had any issues releasing the receiver after bedding the front and back as described?
Turn it upside down and pretend the stock is the scope...bedding behind the recoil lug is "taking the slack out of the mounting in the forward direction".Originally Posted by FW Conch
Chrazy-Chris...I remove the barreled action from a newly bedded stock the same way framk1947 described it in the thread " Bedding under the Barrel". In the future, I hope to be able to do it the way Bill Pa does it. If you read my question, why is it "obvious" that I would want the back of the lug bedded in the back?
KRP... If I turn the rifle upside down, "and pretend the stock is a scope", I would pull the stock toward the back of the action and tighten the screws. This is according to the installation instructions of all of the scope and ring manufactures I have encountered.
But as I said above, I bed the front and back of the lug, hopefully covering all bases. And I torque my scope screws sufficiently to accommodate the "physics" regardless of what it dictates. So far, it all moves together as one piece. ;-))
I think you're misreading scope ring instructions. The rings should be pushed forward until their crossbolts contact the lugs of the rail, not pulled back. The same thing would be true for KRP's thought experiment: the stock would be pushed forward before tightening. Consider the following diagram:
The acceleration of the red and blue blocks would be tied to the black recoiling mass by the lugs at the top and bottom. The yellow and purple blocks, however, would not be positively restrained and would tend to want to remain still as the black mass recoils, resulting in their relative forward movement. In this diagram, the red block would be the crossbolt of a scope ring and the blue block would be the recoil lug of a stock.
I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong or too detrimental about bedding the front of the lug, so long as it can still be disassembled and reassembled!
I think you're all thinking too much lol! But I'll sit back and watch this unfold!
Thanks "Wolf". That must be what this pain is coming from. Same one I used to get in science class.
O well...things get a little slow in my shooting world this time of year. ;-))
The fact is that there is no perfect science to an accurate rifle. There are ways that are proven to work better than others, but for the most part you eventually get down to details that are so small you can't really measure them. I believe no matter how good/seasoned of a shooter you are when it comes to a finely tuned rig you have good days and bad days. Only if it is consistently getting worse would I consider it to be something with the way the rig was put together. That's what fine tuning a rig is all about.
There's no way to tell if one bedding style is better than another. If it turns out to make one rifle accurate and someone else follows that advice and it doesn't work for them they are going to have different opinions.
As long as you have met the basic required characteristics of an accurate rig which the list can be quite long and different for different manufacturer's rifles what I believe a Savage requires is a free floated barrel, free floated tang, and the action/recoil lug need to have a solid well fitted connection with the stock. After that whatever sighting system needs to be up to par with the recoil of the rifle and installed correctly. It's something pretty basic that we try to make more difficult at time because we all like to debate the subject and make more work for ourselves to try and make it even better.
In the end We all like to play with our "toys" and will make whatever new excuse we have to in order to continue doing so! That's the addiction and inspiration for our hobby. Also the expense!
The way I see it is the difference between a scope and a receiver is you don't have a round going off and a projectile flying out the front of a scope. It is obvious to bed the back of the lug because when the round discharges, the recoil pushes the receiver back in the opposite direction of the muzzle. This energy is transferred from the receiver into the stock and into your shoulder. The scope is sitting on top of the receiver all the while and wants to stay at rest until acted upon by another force. As the receiver is forced back from the recoil, the scope will try and stay at rest while the receiver recoils back. If you place the rings against the front slots of the base, it will not leave any room for movement when this occurs.
This is just the way I envision it. I'm a CJ major so take it with a grain of salt.
To all who have responded, "Thanks for the really good info"! ;-)). Thanks to this Site, all of my rifles are already better than I am. It "is" a hobby to me and it all adds up to give me more confidence when I break the shot. For the last 15 years, my White Tails have all been one shot, one kills, and that's what my shooting and reloading is geared toward. It's a great feeling when that Buck is in the cross hairs, and because you've done your homework and your prep work and practice, you can put that shot right right where your aiming it.
Thanks Again! Good-Luck/Good Shooting......Jim ;-))
When you guys get to the point of bedding as many guns as I have, it will be very obvious why you tape all sides of the lug except for the back.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
Now what the heck are we 'spose to do with that delicious little tid-bit, Fred? :)
I've always done it that way 'cuz I was told to and it seems like installing and removing the stock otherwise would be a pain and only prove to eventually damage the bedding job. What's your reasoning?
"Gump... yer a genius, if it wasn't such a waste of an enlisted man, I'd send you to officers school."
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
LOL That idiot had a big heart and accomplished a lot with what he had.
I, on the other hand, am the biggest underachiever I know! :)
There is also another reason. At some point, and it's a sure bet with you guys, your'e gonna change or remove the barrel. If the lug is bedded too tight, it does not allow for slight rotational differences in the way the lug is located. If you've ever noticed when you snug up a barrel nut, the lug will rotate slightly. If the lug is not in the exact spot it was when it was bedded, it will cause the barrel to lean one way or the other. That's why you should have ample clearance all the way around the sides and the bottom. If you don't make clearance on the front side of the lug, it will shave bedding off every time you re-install the stock. This will leave little crumbs of bedding under the lug.
When ever I bed a full build, I use an oversize lug just for bedding purposes that is .025" bigger all the way around and has built in draft for easy removal.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
spot-on.
Trying to add something else to what you,ve said but there really isnt any need to.
Life is tuff.....its even tuffer when your stupid
{John Wayne}
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