Savage Model 10 .308 - HELP!

[dalebounds]

Would someone be kind enough to help me or steer me in the right direction?
I just recently started shooting again and I had purchased a Savage model 10 .308 accutrigger with a synthetic stock from Wally World (I am poor as well as new.) It was the scope package that they sell (Bushnell 3x9x40 .)
One reason that I made the purchase was an experienced shooter had bought one and said he loved it. This is the first new rifle I have ever bought, all the others I had owned or shot were used.
Here is my issue(s):

I discovered that the barrel free floats and I really hate it. I noticed that I can squeeze the stock to the barrel out on the end of the fore stock. I am planning to put a bi pod on it but need the stability in the stock. The accutrigger is a bit different and takes some getting used to.
I initially went out to sight in the scope and cannot seem to get the thing to sight in worth a darn.
No groupings at all. It is all over the place! I am shooting off of a bag from a bench so as to have a steady platform to try to dial in the scope.
Although I just started shooting again, I used to be a pretty decent shot 20 yrs ago. I am sure it is partially technique, but not to the extremes that it is.
On the initial sight in attempt I was using Remington 150gr. It was shooting 18' low right out of the box. After adjustments I was getting to hit the 12x12 target, but no groupings at all...just scattered shots. It was a bit windy, but I did not think that bad.
Today I went back out as it was slightly windy and shot 40 rnds of 147gr NATO ammo and was getting the same deal. The reason being was to run sounds thru it to break in the barrel and get used to shooting again.
I was able to hit 2 out of 5 shots at a steel upper torso target @ 450 yds and hit 2 of 3 shots at a hanging hub cap sized steel target @ 300 yds. I then went back to the 100 yd 24x18" cardboard target to try to get the scope set. The results were the same no bulls eye or groupings at all ( I was glad I was hitting the thing at this point!)
Do I really suck that bad??? I have taken the barrel off from the syn stock to see about epoxying a stiffener in the inside end of the fore stock ( I was told you could alleviate the play by doing so.) The piece popped loose after the 5th shot so I broke it down and removed it, replaced the barrel and continued shooting.
Did I not set the barrel back in the stock right/correctly???
I did not make any adjustments to the scope until the last 5 rnds as I was thinking it was the Indian and not the arrow and maybe I needed more practice to get comfortable with it.
These syn stocks are foreign to me as I have always had wood.
I sighted in my little brothers scope years ago (it was dead on) and never had these kind of problems.
Can some one Help me figure out what I am doing wrong?
I am almost dissapointed with the Savage rifle. I have always known them to be good products.
Any help/advice would be deeply appreciated.
Thanks.

[IMYURHUCKLEBERRY]

The synthetic stock is really not one of the best but for the best accuracy you do need a free floating barrel. If you don't have this as the barrel heats up it will create contact points as it expands changing the point of impact and harmonics. You might have broken the stock where the action sits by forcing the barrel to touch the stock. If this is not the case you may try to glass bed it again which always help. Another thing is check all the action screws and ensure that they are tight as this can through off the accuracy. Check the mounting base and rings for loose screws make sure they are tight. Boresight your rifle at 50 yds by taking the bolt out and physically looking through the bore of the rifle at a target. If you can have a friend assist with out you moving the rifle look through the scope and direct your friend to adjust the crosshairs to the target. What you see through the barrel you should see through the scope. After that fire 3 shots at the 50 yd target always keeping in mind of your sight picture. In other words, regardless of where the bullet impacts occur always aim at the same spot. After the 3 shots you should hopefully have a group and use the center of the group to determine how much to move up or down or left or right. Adjust the scope with the appropriate knobs of adjustment. If the group is low and off center adjust in the direction that the group has to move.

[saxrulez]

I'm new as well. I just bought the same gun today!

I'm hoping someone in here can kinda show me what I actually bought though. After looking on savagearms.com I cant seem to find the same model number as the one I bought today.
I know I didn't do too terribly since its a savage 308 with an accutrigger for $400, but I can't figure out which one I have!

On the box of the one I purchased it says Savage 10FXP3 for the model number. The barrel of my rifle just says Savage Model 10 .308

Can someone point me to the actual model that I have?!

[borg]

HAH! I am not the only one with these problems. They must give the worst guns to Wally World. Here is what I did:

1. Replaced the scope and scope mounts. This brought the groups down to a reasonable 3-6" for 3-shot groups.
2. Experimented with cheap factory ammo using different bullet types and weights. Then I bought a Lee Loader and handloaded rounds with that type of bullet. (180 gr SP) This brought the 3-shot groups down to about 2-3". (Then I bought more reloading equipment.)
4. Placed my sandbag rest underneath the action screw. This brought the 3-shot groups down to 0.75 to 1.5 MOA with the same handloads.
5. Bought a new stock from Stockade Stocks and put the gun in it. Now I get 5-shot groups with the 180 grainers regularly in the 1 to 1.5 MOA range without the necessity of placing the rest underneath the action screw.
6. Loaded a bunch of rounds of 165 gr SST over H414. Shot 4 MOA.
7. Bought another gun.

It would have been cheaper long term to buy one of them stainless Tikkas I was eying, but where is the fun in that?

[borg]

I'm new as well. I just bought the same gun today!

I'm hoping someone in here can kinda show me what I actually bought though. After looking on savagearms.com I cant seem to find the same model number as the one I bought today.
I know I didn't do too terribly since its a savage 308 with an accutrigger for $400, but I can't figure out which one I have!

On the box of the one I purchased it says Savage 10FXP3 for the model number. The barrel of my rifle just says Savage Model 10 .308

Can someone point me to the actual model that I have?!

I think it is a Savage 10FXP3.

[lostart]

sax rules

here ya go http://savagearms.com/firearms/model/11FXP3 synthetic stock

http://savagearms.com/firearms/model/10GXP3 wood stock

[saxrulez]

Well I've already ordered a Nikon Prostaff 3-9x-40mm http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemD...aspx?sku=37277 The $35 Bushnell wasn't going to cut it.

I'm a bit confuzzled on which rings I should buy...Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

[rjtfroggy]

For the time being use the base and rings that came on the gun, just be sure the rings are tight(18-20 in/lbs.) that's about as tight as you can go with the torx wrench short side between thumb and index finger.
On the synthetic stocks never place the stock at the swivel in/on the rest it will make contact and throw off your shot, place it closer to the action screw. If you have removed action from the stock make sure you follow the directions for reassembly, it does make a difference(they are in the manual).
BTW all I own now are Savages and have yet to get one that doesn't shoot sub MOA after sighting it in.

[MSG Janoski]

Dale,
Looks like you did not do your research first and just paid some "stupid tax" as the saying goes!

I'm a new Savage shooter, but have been a career marksman. I received a new Savage late last year and it's a great rifle. The model I was given has the AccuTrigger and the AccuStock (10 FLCP-K) and out of the box it has out shot all the long range bolt action rifles I'd been issued in the past.

If you search and read threads here you'll find allot of folks purchase a basic 10 model already planning to replace the older standard stock. And as others have said that Bushnell is not even a good door stop.

Your trigger/action/barrel are fine now you need to decide to sell it as is and start over, or start replacing components.

[bluealtered]

Welcome aboard, i would start with reading the owners manual on the correct way to tighten the stock to the action. Even though the 3-9 scope on there isn't the best in the world it should get you on the paper for 100yds. I would also before shooting check all screws to make sure they are tight, including the scope base mount. The scope and rings on there will work for breaking in or hunting.

When starting out with a new rifle i start at 25yds on a big piece of cardboard to see where it is, with the .308 if i put my grouping about 6" low of center at 25yd i will be about 4" high at 100yds of center on a standard piece of computer paper. If you want a fair group you will need to use decent ammo, try the super-x 150gr for factory ammo it should get you on the paper to start with.

The floating stock will work well off of sand bags, simply set them back a bit not at the end. Bipods don't work well for me with that type of stock, well enough to hunt with yes, but not well enough to make very tight groups on the bench.

The accu-trigger does work very well once you adjust to it. I still have the factory stock on two of my "cheap" savages and both will shoot interlocking three shot groups when i do my part, this is after breaking in of course. blue

[borg]

Well I've already ordered a Nikon Prostaff 3-9x-40mm http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemD...aspx?sku=37277 The $35 Bushnell wasn't going to cut it.

I'm a bit confuzzled on which rings I should buy...Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

I like Warne.

[ranrt1]

Sounds like you need to tighten the two allen screws around the trigger and the one underneath the stock. These can become loose after about 40 rounds or so if never hand tightened by you. May be a factory thing, not sure. But try that. Good Luck.

[dalebounds]

All...
First of all thank you for the input and helpful tips. It is much appreciated. when I was shooting, everything I owned was open sights, this is the first scoped rifle I have ever owned.
Secondly I think I am being misunderstood at the "free floating" barrel comment the fault being mine for not knowing how to verbalize it correctly...what I meant was the play/freedom of movement/rigidity of the stock out on the end of the fore stock when using a bi-pod.
I bought the rifle due to a friend ( who has shot his whole life ) said it was a great gun and was shooting his well. I have not "forced" the barrel to touch the stock at all.
Before I even shot the rifle, I know the county sheriff ( who is a bronze star recipient and was a sniper in Vietnam ) who trains SWAT snipers at his range where I go and shoot, told me it was a decent rifle and showed me some of the particulars about it.
He stated that you can epoxy a "stiffener" inside the fore stock to alleviate the play ( resting the rifle on the fore stock or using a bi pod causes the weight out on the end and it can throw the shot off.)
He also told me about the mounting screws and said torque them to 45 inch pounds.

All in all I paid the stupid tax as stated!
Thanks for that word of encouragement by the way...your compassion is overwhelming for a newbie! Just remember that YOU had to start somewhere too!

I did do some online research and reading and got the impression that it was a decent rifle. That coupled with input from 2 people I know is why I decided to purchase it.
I am fairly dejected and will probably get rid of it. I will try some of the suggestions on here first and see how it goes.

Thanks to all the positive feedback and tips from you guys. I am very grateful for all of your help and advice.
I did check it after reading your posts and found that the scope was slightly loose ( meaning I could still turn the allen heads with a allen wrench ) and the knurled screws on the right side where the scope mounts to the rails was barely turnable, but turnable none the less.
Thank you for the bore sight tip...i will definitely try it although a gun vise might be in order.
As I stated before without equivocations, I am a financially challenged right now and needed a rifle in case we may have to hunt for food to survive the economy!
I hope you all keep well.
Regards.

[LeeH]

Try some Factory .308 or some good re-loads.
NATO 7.62 is NOT the same as .308 and your rifle is
chambered for .308.
I have yet to find a .762 NATO round as accurate as
factory loads or a good re-load.

[bootsmcguire]

a tiny little bit of play in the optics can cause accuracy problems. My friend went out and bought one of the 10 BAS rifles and asked me to load him some ammo to get started. I loaded him my target loads (which are mild). i brought him the ammo and due to the weather we were unable to shoot that day. The next weekend he went to the range and called me from there to tell me my ammo was horrible in his gun. I assured him that it was the best recipe in my gun and should be a good starting point for his. I ran out to the range and met him there. upon inspection of his gun I saw the problem right away. While he went to the restroom I tightened up his base and remounted the rings to the base and when he came back I asked if i could try it. I shot three shots touching at 100yds. He scratched his head for a few minutes and after he started to think that he had lost his skills somehow ( as he has always been as good of a shot as I am ) I explained to him what was going on. After getting over the initial embarrassment, he was over joyed that it was something so simple. My advice is to just step back and check the simple stuff. 9 times out of 10 it is something simple.
Also, I use the factory Synthetic stock on two of my 12fv savages with a bi-pod and shoot quite well. the stock flex seems to have little affect on mine. I dunno, each rifle is unique to what it likes.

[borg]

All...
...I am fairly dejected and will probably get rid of it...
I hope you all keep well.
Regards.

Too early to give up, my friend. You will end up selling a good gun cheap if you don't try some of the cheap and/or free suggestions you have been given. Here is my list of cheap fixes I'd try before selling:

1. Tighten the screws.
2. This cannot be overstressed: Put your rest (sandbag, whatever) beneath the action screw. When you shoulder it, put your supporting hand beneath the action screw.
3. Cheap ammo doesn't shoot great in every gun. My .30-06 shot a 3-round 0.72" center-to-center group with 180 gr Interlock BTSP over 56 grains of RL-19, and around 1.5" with 57 and 58 grains of powder. It shot >6" groups with some box of 150 grain Federal I picked up at a gas station. This was while the rifle was still wearing the factory plastic stock, but I wised up to rest placement between the Federal and the handloads.
4. The world is divided over breaking in a barrel, but did you follow the factory break-in procedure? It helped with my .30-06.
5. Clean your bore with a good copper solvent, or at least a copper solvent.

[bodywerks]

Had a similar problem with my 10-fcp-k. Turned out to be the ammo...
Before, with PMC 147g cheapo stuff. all shots made while aiming for the bullseye at 100 yards:
[img width=440 height=450]http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/PMCfliers-1.jpg[/img]
After,with Hornady 168g BTHP match ammo, windy conditions, off a bipod, no sandbags. Bullseye!:
[img width=600 height=432]http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/firsthornady.jpg[/img]
then
[img width=355 height=450]http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/secondbesthornady.jpg[/img]
and three holes touching under the same conditions:
[img width=355 height=450]http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/besthornady.jpg[/img]
So my advice is to try some match ammo...

[dalebounds]

Borg...All,

Thank you all for the great advice. You guys are both very knowledgeable and helpful!
I read the manual when I purchased the rifle. The only step I missed was when standing the rifle up on re mounting the barrel was to place downward pressure to tighten screws front to back. I found this out after re-reading the manual yesterday evening.
I did check the little things and found some stuff slightly loose ( meaning I could turn the allens still by hand, on the scope.) I was a little leery of cranking the scope mounts and stuff as I was unsure if I could damage it (on the scope to scope rings.) Meaning snugged down then turned 1/4 turn??
The bore sight method of removing the bolt and look thru the barrel makes sense and I have never heard of it. Unfortunately I am a lone wolf on this aspect as I am out in BFE and don't know anyone here.
I was setting the rifle on the bag closer to the action and not out on the end (because I was leery of the play out on the end.)
As far as the factory break in procedure - I understood that you should shoot 5 rounds, clean, then 5 more clean etc. I have not been using copper solvent or solvent of any sort, just gun oil.
I asked the sheriff (initial post) what he recommended. He advised clean after every round for the first 10. then shoot 5 and clean etc. He also advised his opinion was that it takes about 2-300 rounds before the barrel is broke in. I have followed his advice. So far it has had 60 rounds thru it and now I hoping I didn't screw that up.

One of the reasons I bought the NATO rounds was I did search on AIM for .308 and it came up with .308 (7.62x51) ammo and it was re loadable brass. I read some reviews on it and asked some shooting friends.
While I am fully aware that cheap ammo is probably not good ( you get what you pay for) it would suffice for break in use.
Again, my mindset was use it for break in then re-load my own.

link here: http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.as...8SA&groupid=26

I thought it would be a a good deal to use to break in the barrel and provide brass to reload as I plan to re load my own and have ordered a LEE re-loading set. I initially bought 2 boxes of factory ammo.
Speaking of re-loading, Do you recommend the HERCULES RL-19 for powder?
What are your recommendations for the bullet?

As I stated before, it has been 20 years since I have been shooting though I am not Einstein in the dept I consider myself still a novice and not a complete dunce. Hence is why I asked people I trusted. Having found this site has and will be invaluable.
The strange/new things on the rifle to me are:
3 way safety.
The accutrigger
Synthetic stock.
I want to thank you all again both for your advice and encouragement.
Thank you all again from the bottom of my heart!

[snipecatcher]

The ammo you posted a link to is Berdan primed. Do not try to reload it! Also, I would start with Varget powder when you do decide to reload. It has worked well for me in all calibers.

[learjet]

couple loads that have been awful accurate in every 308 weve tried, a few savages, a win70, an m1a..

win cases/cci 200s

sierra 165g gameking hollow point, 44g varget
sierra 110 hp varminter, 47g(i think)

these seems to shoot very well in anything, often grouping at 100yd as good as or better than most match bullet loads, and they r cheaper, and easy to find

im a varget guy as well btw

also, anything for me i mean ANYTHING loaded wthe 147FMJ, either reloads or factory / sulplus ammo is only good for one thing...wasting powder. i have never gotten that bullet to shoot any better than your groups in any rifle

GL!

[dalebounds]

Can you not re load berdan primed?
Ahhh...I see...all the Euro stuff is berdan primed (wondered what that was?)
Into the brass bucket it goes!
(I have yet to research re loading as I do not have all the equip)

I am learning more and more every day from you guys....I really can not express enough how grateful I am for all of your help.
Well at least I have ammo to practice with and get the barrel broke in...

Can someone tell me how many re loads you typically get on brass?
Surely the brass stretches after a bit, I would imagine and ....how do know if the brass hasn't been maxed out on re loading already?
Also if anyone can steer me to a trusted site for brass, that would be great.
Would this be a good deal or is anyone familiar with this site?

https://surplusammo.com/index.php?ma...43452f5dc701f0

OK ...got it
Winchester for the brass
CCI for the primers
Varget for the powder
Sierra for the bullets (boat tail??.. or is all of them boat tail?)....which gr should I be getting? I am sure it depends on the application.
I want to learn to shoot long range 500 yds and out.

Which gr will I need when the IRS shows up to enforce the new health care bill???.....just kidding.

Thanks again for all the help/advice!

[Blue Avenger]

Can you not re load berdan primed?
( I have yet to research re loading as I do not have all the equip)

you can, just a lot more work. You need a special decaper with 2 pins ans have to rotate each case to line up the pins with the holes.

[learjet]

i wouldnt buy ebay brass. just me, but i want new. i usually load 308s 5 times or so then usem for hunting, and stockpiling.

some rifles seem to shoot flat based bullets better at closer ranges. nother thing u could try is some black hills or federal match ammo, save the brass, when u get a few hundred saved up start reloading. u could try some hunting ammo, but accuracy could be an issue, just depends

some of the online places i buy components are

http://www.midwayusa.com/
http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/
http://www.grafs.com/

might be worth ur while to find someone locally who reloads, who can show u the ropes. will probably save u some money and frustration

GL!

lear

[dalebounds]

Thanks Learjet.....
Well at least I have ammo to practice with and get the barrel broke in...

Also if anyone can steer me to a trusted site for brass, that would be great.
Would this be a good deal or is anyone familiar with this site?

https://surplusammo.com/index.php?ma...43452f5dc701f0

OK ...got it
Winchester for the brass
CCI for the primers
Varget for the powder
Sierra for the bullets (boat tail??.. or is all of them boat tail?)....which gr should I be getting? I am sure it depends on the application.
I want to learn to shoot long range 500 yds and out.

Which gr will I need when the IRS shows up to enforce the new health care bill???.....just kidding.

Thanks again for all the help/advice!

[bootsmcguire]

I have to agree with Snipecatcher and learjet about the Varget Powder. I like it because it handles temperature change wonderful. I shoot my 308 at paper all summer and fall, and then take it out deer hunting in the winter. Varget lets me hit nearly the same out to 300 yards at subfreezing temps as it does in 90 degree July weather. i use the following recipes in mine....

155gr. Hornday A-Max with 45.0gr. Varget and federal Large Rifle Primers, in Winchester Brass (Target Load)

150gr. Hornady SST with 45.0gr. Varget and Federal Large Rifle Primers, in Winchester Brass (Hunting Load)

Both loads are reloaded using Lee Collet Neck Sizing Dies and Crimped Using Lee's Factory Crimp Die. The Neck Sized Cases do improve your accuracy and case life, and are nice because no lube is required using this die. With the Factory Crimp Die I just put a very light crimp on my loads. I read that you ordered Lee equipment and I must recommend The Deluxe Die set and the Factory Crimp Die (which you have to buy separately from the deluxe die set).
The SST's don't fly quite as well as the A-Max's at 300, but its not enough to matter for a hunting round.
Hope some of this helps out.