New rifle, first groups! AMAZING!

[Not_Infringed]

I can't believe this rifle! It shoots like a laser beam!

Model 10 FCP-HS in .308 Win
Nikon M-308 scope
TPS steel 1 piece base (bedded using JB Weld)
TPS rings (lapped)

Brass: Lapua (Factory new unfired)
Primer: CCI #200 large rifle
Bullets: Barnes 168gr TSX BT
Powder: IMR 4064 43.0gr
OAL: 2.770" (.050" jump to lands)

3 shots (2 holes) fired from 100 yards off bench with front and rear sandbags
.272 MOA max
.118 MOA average to center

[cowtownup]

boom!!!! You gotta love that...

[Freebore]

Good job! I suppose you don't have a chrono? Is be curious what speed you are getting out if that combo

[drybean]

Outstanding

[Not_Infringed]

Good job! I suppose you don't have a chrono? Is be curious what speed you are getting out if that combo

I will get a chronograph one day. But for now...I'd *GUESS* about 2,500 fps.

[eddiesindian]

Those were my thoughts exactly when i got my HS. doesnt it feel great?
While shopping around and looking for a good bolt rig, I saw a couple of Remies but they were WAY over priced and they didnt come with what i wanted. The 1st time I spotted the Savage Model 10 FCP Mil Spec, 5R, fluted,threaded, 11.25 twist barrel, with an HS Stock, I had to have it. Sure enuff.....close and tight patterns 1st go around..there even tighter now. Ive done absolutely nothing to the stock.
Mine loves the 150 SMK,s with RL-15 but Ive been developing a different load for the 168,s and 4064 because I cant find RL-15 anymore.
Ive found 42.2 to give me tight groups @ 2730 (5 shoot average) @ 3800ft elev. I tried copying Federal FGMM with 168 SMK,s 42.8 charge weight of 4064 but I found my speed to be faster than factory OEM. I slowed it down and paydirt!...the 175,s are doing even better.
Congrates on your new HS!

[Not_Infringed]

Those were my thoughts exactly when i got my HS. doesnt it feel great?
While shopping around and looking for a good bolt rig, I saw a couple of Remies but they were WAY over priced and they didnt come with what i wanted. The 1st time I spotted the Savage Model 10 FCP Mil Spec, 5R, fluted,threaded, 11.25 twist barrel, with an HS Stock, I had to have it. Sure enuff.....close and tight patterns 1st go around..there even tighter now. Ive done absolutely nothing to the stock.
Mine loves the 150 SMK,s with RL-15 but Ive been developing a different load for the 168,s and 4064 because I cant find RL-15 anymore.
Ive found 42.2 to give me tight groups @ 2730 (5 shoot average) @ 3800ft elev. I tried copying Federal FGMM with 168 SMK,s 42.8 charge weight of 4064 but I found my speed to be faster than factory OEM. I slowed it down and paydirt!...the 175,s are doing even better.
Congrates on your new HS!

I am guessing the 5R and threaded option is no longer available. I like the 1:10 of my barrel, but I so wish it was threaded! One day I'll send it off to get threaded.

[eddiesindian]

I am guessing the 5R and threaded option is no longer available. I like the 1:10 of my barrel, but I so wish it was threaded! One day I'll send it off to get threaded.

this may be true indeed. I have yet to see anybody with my model. Ive asked a few times and started some threads here at SS.C but to no avail.
I like it so much that I purchased a 10FCP-K to send heaviers down range and give my HS a break. Ive owned the HS for a couple of yrs and the Model K for 1 yr. I can honestly say that the HS shows more consistancy and accuracy.
The 10FCP-K in 1/10 twist suprise,s me to no end. Especially for the price.
I think you,ll start seeing tighter groups after a few 100 down the tube and re-evaluate your load.
My thought is that your running faster than 2500. More like mid/high 2600. Unless your a @ sea level.
Im getting 2700 with a 168 SMK 42.2 of 4064 @ 3800ft elev.

[Not_Infringed]

this may be true indeed. I have yet to see anybody with my model. Ive asked a few times and started some threads here at SS.C but to no avail.
I like it so much that I purchased a 10FCP-K to send heaviers down range and give my HS a break. Ive owned the HS for a couple of yrs and the Model K for 1 yr. I can honestly say that the HS shows more consistancy and accuracy.
The 10FCP-K in 1/10 twist suprise,s me to no end. Especially for the price.
I think you,ll start seeing tighter groups after a few 100 down the tube and re-evaluate your load.
My thought is that your running faster than 2500. More like mid/high 2600. Unless your a @ sea level.
Im getting 2700 with a 168 SMK 42.2 of 4064 @ 3800ft elev.

Just curious why you think the rifle will produce tighter groups as more shots are fired? I am not trying to argue, but learn. Are you referring to barrel break in? What are your thoughts about using copper solvent on the barrel? Does the copper help seal the machining marks and imperfections in the rifling?

My elevation is about 700' above sea level. 3,800' is pretty high! I guess that is why your FPS is fast too.

Also, have you shot much 180gr projectiles from a 1:10 in 308Win? Everything I read says its not worth it and 168gr is the heaviest/optimum bullet for a 308. But I wonder if the folks that say that are using 1:12 or 1:14 twist?

[eddiesindian]

Just curious why you think the rifle will produce tighter groups as more shots are fired? I am not trying to argue, but learn. Are you referring to barrel break in? What are your thoughts about using copper solvent on the barrel? Does the copper help seal the machining marks and imperfections in the rifling?

My elevation is about 700' above sea level. 3,800' is pretty high! I guess that is why your FPS is fast too.

Also, have you shot much 180gr projectiles from a 1:10 in 308Win? Everything I read says its not worth it and 168gr is the heaviest/optimum bullet for a 308. But I wonder if the folks that say that are using 1:12 or 1:14 twist?

yes to all the above (except to the 180,s havent tried them yet.)
Seeing as how your at lower altitudes, you may see those 168,s slow down a bit too much at extended distance,s. There known for getting squiggly when they,ve gone transonic. Ive been using 168,s for the past 30 yrs and have never seen the 168,s keyhole but then again Im at higher elevations. You may be suprised as to how well that 1-10twist does with simple 150,s
As far as cleaning copper from the rifling?...thats a loaded question. You may get 10 different shooter give you 10 different opinions. All I can tell you is what Ive personally expierenced with my rigs.
IMO...barrel break in just doesnt happen in the 1st 40 rds...it takes more than that.
With that said, I start working on load development asap to see what that particular barrel likes/dislikes. I know the outcome is subject to change a bit but at least I have a good starting point.
More often than not, Ive already sent a few 100 down the tube when I start seeing certain consistantcy.
Once that happens, Ill clean the barrel with dedicated copper removing solvents, re-evaluate my load,s. More often than not,Ive found the groupings to go back right to where they were with more rds sent down the barrel. Once that happens, I wont clean the barrel with copper solvents again untill I see a drastic change in my poi. I use solvents that removed powder fouling/grime.
Working at a Ford Dealership has its advantages because Im able to look down my barrel using a high end HD Snap-On Bore scope with clear magnification and down load what I see onto a pc in HD for before and after comparisons.
Reloading/shooting/care/procedures are so subjective it,ll make your head spin.
Once you find what works for you.......then stick with it.

[1.618]

That's what I'm TALKIN about!

Nice!

[RatMag]

Outfreakinstanding!! Gotta love Savage!!

DK

[Oscarflytyer]

Very nice. Mine was awful out of the box. But after 53 rnds, it is shrinking regularly. Yet to shoot some real good match ammo/equivalent loads in it.

[300winmag]

Very nice. Mine was awful out of the box.

Same here, although mine is a 110. Even with match ammo, lousy results.


Congrats to OP.

[D.ID]

Oscarflytyer, Put some premium high octane fuel in that thing. Athletes have to fuel right to perform, race cars have to fuel right to perform, rifles are the same.
Congratulations to the OP on some **** fine shooting.

[D.ID]

For close range 168s do fine but who ever told you it was optimal is ignorant of ballistics or strictly referring to close range. I run 178 amax or 190 vld in mine. I shoot long range and would not bother with a lighter bullet than a 175.

[GaCop]

Love those Savages! Congratulations!

[foxx]

I think we're all good on the 3-shot v 5-shot thing. Personally, I am glad the subject came up and everyone explained their points and views on the sport/hobby and circumstances. I am really itching to get out there and shoot some distance and getting sick of just finding ways to "make do" at 100. :)

Now that I've had my say, and am satisfied with everyone's views, lets let Not_Infringed have his thread back. :)

[Not_Infringed]

I think we're all good on the 3-shot v 5-shot thing. Personally, I am glad the subject came up and everyone explained their points and views on the sport/hobby and circumstances. I am really itching to get out there and shoot some distance and getting sick of just finding ways to "make do" at 100. :)

Now that I've had my say, and am satisfied with everyone's views, lets let Not_Infringed have his thread back. :)

I am glad it came up! One of the reasons I posted this was for constructive feedback! I want to learn as much from as many people as possible.

[eddiesindian]

I am glad it came up! One of the reasons I posted this was for constructive feedback! I want to learn as much from as many people as possible.

what distance,s do you plan on sending your rounds to?

[Rifleshooter308]

I do not say this to be a dick but I can't understand how you can gauge the accuracy of a rifle with a 3 round group. I guess from a cold bore perspective it can be helpful but if your using groups to determine accuracy a minimum 5 shot group with 10 being a better indicator.

Give the Snipers Hide Dot Drill a try. This is what I use for practice and it is extremely helpful. Instead of trying to group you shoot one shot at each dot. There are 20 1/2" dots on each target. This will tell you how accurate your rifle really is.

http://www.mytargets.com/target22%20circles%20x20.pdf

[D.ID]

............

[Not_Infringed]

I do not say this to be a dick but I can't understand how you can gauge the accuracy of a rifle with a 3 round group. I guess from a cold bore perspective it can be helpful but if your using groups to determine accuracy a minimum 5 shot group with 10 being a better indicator.

Give the Snipers Hide Dot Drill a try. This is what I use for practice and it is extremely helpful. Instead of trying to group you shoot one shot at each dot. There are 20 1/2" dots on each target. This will tell you how accurate your rifle really is.

http://www.mytargets.com/target22%20circles%20x20.pdf

Keep in mind this is the first time I dragged the rifle to the range. If you think I am done with developing and testing loads...well you just don't know how deep my addiction is apparently

While this is a bull barrel, I do agree that a 5 shot group is pretty realistic. But the logistics of the public range, and wife and kids did not allow for me to spend all day at the range and letting it cool down completely between groups, etc. In fact, I only let the rifle cool once...almost to ambient temperature between groups, but all the rest were fired with a hot barrel, including this .118 MOA average to center group. Was this group lucky? Probably. Could I reproduce it? Probably. But hey, these are hunting bullets! And I am gearing up for a hog hunt...and I doubt it is going to take more than 3 shots to put down a hog! But wait...these aren't even match grade slugs! Just wait until I load some SMK's...

While I agree more groups and more testing and more load development are always a good thing...ideally the number of shots per group needs to match the intended use of a gun. If you shoot competition, slow fire, fast fire, 5 shots, 10 shots, 30 round mag dumps, then your loads, testing, and groups need to work to that goal. If you are a 1 shot one kill from a cold barrel sniper, then that is your goal. To say you need 5 shots groups no exceptions, is not good advice IMHO.

[n4ue]

I can't believe this rifle! It shoots like a laser beam!

Model 10 FCP-HS in .308 Win
Nikon M-308 scope
TPS steel 1 piece base (bedded using JB Weld)
TPS rings (lapped)

Brass: Lapua (Factory new unfired)
Primer: CCI #200 large rifle
Bullets: Barnes 168gr TSX BT
Powder: IMR 4064 43.0gr
OAL: 2.770" (.050" jump to lands)

3 shots (2 holes) fired from 100 yards off bench with front and rear sandbags
.272 MOA max
.118 MOA average to center

Excellent results!
Please explain the 'bedding with JB Weld'.....

ron

[Not_Infringed]

Excellent results!
Please explain the 'bedding with JB Weld'.....

ron

I have a 1 piece scope base, and this method applies here (not so much with twist in rings or 2 piece bases, etc). A 1 piece base screws down on the receiver in front of the ejection port and behind it. While I believe Savage quality and craftsmanship to be tip top, there are real world tolerances and machining that are just never perfect. So when you take a base off the shelf and screw it down tight, there are stresses induced on the base. It might twist a little bit, or bow up or down. So goal is to mount it so it is stress free and perfectly flat and with a 100% contact patch between the base and the receiver. The rings I bought were CNC machined, so what is the point of getting those high quality perfect circles if they are strapped to a thin piece of metal that is inclined to warp when I torque it down?

In a nutshell the process is:

• Clean the top of the receiver with a good solvent (brake cleaner)
• Clean the bottom of the scope base with a good solvent
  
  • I lightly scuffed the bottom of mine with a green Scotch Brite so the JB Weld adheres to it (then used solvent)
  
  
• Use a release agent and coat the top of the receiver (a popular choice is Kiwi shoe polish)
  
  • I also put some on the edges of the scope base (not the bottom)
  • Make sure you get it in the screw holes for the base and the scope base mounting screws too!
  
  
• Mix up some JB Weld (the original liquid paste stuff, not the "quick stick")
• Put a *light* coat of JB Weld on the scope base
• Set the scope base on the receiver carefully aligning the screw holes (you don't want to move and smear it around)
• Start threading your mounting screws down
• JB Weld will start smooshing out and that is OK.
  
  • I like to smoosh a little, and then wipe excess off, then smoosh a little, and wipe excess, etc. Just don't finishing tightening and then wipe it off and disturb the base after it is in its final resting spot!
  
  
• You don't want to bottom out the screws and squish it all out, but you want to come close. Basically you want as little JB Weld between the base and the receiver as possible.
• Now the nerve wracking part.
  
  • Let it cure for 4-6 hours and don't touch it or move the gun.
  
  
• Remove the screws and remove the scope base (by hand if possible).
  
  • I had to use a long screw driver and pry it off the receiver leveraging against the ejection port (I was careful and didn't mar the finish and it didn't take hardly any force).
  
  
• Now is the time to clean up any excess JB Weld on the receiver and the edges of the scope base.
• Reattach the scope base and tighten down the screws to their original torque (not a lot).
• Finish waiting the proper cure time (12-24 hours).
• Remove the scope base and clean all that release agent off of the receiver and screws and screw holes and scope base. Be patient, take your time and do a good job. It is not fun.
• Put a very light coating of Lock Tite on the JB Weld and put back on the receiver. This will create a seal and prevent water from seeping in and rusting the receiver.
• Torque the base screws down to the manufacturer's specifications and use Lock Tite as needed.

Now since I am a little OCD, I opted for steel (not aluminum) base and rings since the receiver is steel. So as weather changes and it heats and cools (or as shooting heats the gun up), the coefficient of thermal expansion of the materials is the same and the point of impact should shift much less. This also means that the base will not bow up or down between the seasons. Yes I know the scope tube is aluminum, but there is not a lot I can do about that! The JB Weld is a steel based epoxy so its coefficient of thermal expansion should be close the metal parts.