What kid of bullet did the 7 mag have? And where did it hit?
No doubt lots (millions even) have been taken previously before premium bullets came to life, I suspect the lost animal % was probably lightly higher...much like John Nosler's Canadian moose hunt that pushed him to create Nosler bullets.Originally Posted by Stockrex
It's the same thing I tell my friends that come hang at my cabin on the Kenai to fish....sure you can use cheap tackle, you'll just have to get use to crying more often than others.
They were probly way better hunters than us
It was a Nosler Partition...believe he was using 160g at the time...it hit on the opposite shoulder quartering away....through the shoulder, 1 lung and down the length of the animal and exited out just in front of the opposite read quarter....jumped 10' in the air, took 2 steps and died right there.
There's that likelihood tooThey were probly way better hunters than us
I bet that coreloct was some type of quality control issue or
Something, they are usually extreamly slow opening billets at 30-06 speeds.
While i use different rounds today because of caliber, the core loct bullet has never failed to put meat in the freezer. I know there are better bullets, but it works. I think alot of people overthink things alot. Put it in the right spot.
I usually kill 8 to 10 deer a year along with an annual average of a 100 hogs or so.
I do a lot of bullet testing on the hogs so this is what I've found.
A 233 or 22 250 will kill like a big gun with Barnes ttsx. I've used several different bullets and by far their the best in the small cal.
7mm rem mag and wsm, on hogs, accubonds are hard to beat. Same for a 270 wsm.
When the rpms start slowing down, say 308, 7 08, 30 06 ect. A cup and core bullet works fine. Bt, sst, interlock so on and so forth.
Only exception is my creedmoor. It has a 1-8 twist and the bonded stuff seems to do best. Not saying the others don't work, just not as good.
On deer, it don't really matter. Conventional bullets work fine. The bonded bullets seem to do a bit less damage, the Barnes even less than bonded, but still kill. Main thing is put it where it counts, they'll have a hard time packing it off.
I'm sorry I even got involved in this thread. If you don't know how Barnes perform then don't comment about them. They open quicker than almost any bullet made. Unless you are shooting them at ridiculous ranges and don't maintain 2000 fps. They don't leave huge gaping exit wounds because they are not designed to. They DO massive damage internally and they DO PENETRATE like they are designed to do. If you want to use cheap bullets it's a shame.
So if I use a Sierra game king on a 150lb deer it's a shame? Would it be less shameful if I shot it with a swift A frame?
Really? A shame? I have shamefully slain deer, hogs, coyotes and such all my life. Never shot a barnes, berger, or a nosler. Dead is dead.
+1 right on
Copper has an inherently higher tensile strength than lead--which means after opening it is going to do a better job of staying together. Some tsx's open at lower velocities (Tipped tsx's) giving them more punch--and can significantly expand the would channel size. I'd be very careful about making sweeping generalizations about a particular bullet type. That said--I like accubonds for no other reason than they always seem to group well in whatever hand-load I concoct for whatever caliber--but I use plenty of other bullet types as well. Now how many of you use all-lead semi-wadcutters? : )
[B][COLOR="#FF8C00"]Shooting--it's like high-speed golf[/COLOR][/B]
The point was that for those of us who hunt a variety of game under different conditions, it's best to choose one bullet that will work for everything we encounter. I may use my375 Ruger to hunt everything from rabbits to elk. A 235gr Speer bullet would be fine for small game, deer, and small bear. I sure wouldn't use it for elk. Not to say that it wouldn't work, just not my first choice. Instead of sighting the gun in for each different load I can just sight it in for the 260gr Accubond and be done with it. Same goes for the 338s. When it comes to the smaller rounds like the 243, 25-06, 300 Savage and such, a premium bullet can improve the penetration that otherwise may be lacking.
My comment may not apply to people who only hunt animals in the 300# and under class. I'd consider a black bear medium sized game, but around here the range from 150# to over 300#. I'd rather be over gunned for the small ones than under gunned for the monster!
If you shoot a standard cartridge with a conventional cup and core bullet and it works well for you, then have at it. I typically shoot whichever bullet shoots best in my guns. Those are usually the higher end bullets. If I can get .75 MOA from a 150gr Power Point out of my Savage 99 in 300 Savage then I'll go with that. It just so happens that the 168gr TTSX will do that, so that's what I shoot. Same for the 225gr Sierra Pro Hunter versus the 225 TSX in 338. The Barnes bullets have always shot better in my 338s.
As for the buffalo, they were killed with large caliber, heavy bullets at moderate velocity. Comparing the effectiveness of a 45-120 and a 500+ grain cast bullet to a 30-06 with a 180gr TSX is like comparing apples to refrigerators.
Andrew
Wow you do shoot some oversized guns! That must be why I have never needed any of those rounds. All I have is 30-06, 270, 308, and 6.5CM. What are you shooting again?
I use lead flat points in my sub sonic loads! Lager frontal area hits a lot harder than a copper jacketed pointy bullet that won't expand in those velocities
+1 A quality bullet that is accurate is far more important than an over-priced Barnes that's not accurate in your rifle....every rifle has a preferred diet. Like Bergers, a lot of rifles don't eat Barnes or Bergers well without a lot of tuning and sometimes not at all. My 308's dislike for Barnes bullets years ago is what soured me on them...whereas I have alway been able to get just about every rifle to eat every Nosler, Hornady and Speer bullet fed to them with little effort.
Some peoples kids....LOL
I never really took a liking to small bore rounds for hunting; I'm partial to .30 caliber and larger. The current center fire caliber list:
6mm BR (Striker)
243 Win (Striker)
6.5 Badger (338 RUM Improved necked down to 6.5mm. This one is just getting completed this week)
7mm TCU (Contender)
284 Win (Striker)
30 Herret (Contender)
300 Savage
300 RUM (Striker)
338/375 Ruger (1 rifle and 1 Striker)
358 Winchester
375 Ruger
375 BME (375/404 Improved)
458 Arnold (essentially a 458 Lott from before the Lott was standardized)
Then the normal handgun stuff like 357, 44 mag, 454, 45 acp and 480 Ruger.
All use some form of premium bullet if the gun is used for hunting, as most of them are. The 6mm BR and the 284 Win are primarily target guns and shoot Bergers 80% of the time. When used for hunting they run Barnes TSX bullets. All of these calibers will kill quickly and humanely with minimal meat damage when a premium bullet is used. Stick a soft bullet in the bigger cases and you'll tear up a deer's shoulder pretty bad! A strong bonded or mono-metal bullet won't do that.
Andrew
ok guys, many ways to skin a cat, ill agree to disagree
Last edited by Luke45; 04-21-2014 at 01:29 AM.
I know hunters that swear by matchkings--they like the idea of an exploding bullet that dumps all it's energy turning vitals to jello.
[B][COLOR="#FF8C00"]Shooting--it's like high-speed golf[/COLOR][/B]
In my experience I don't think you need a bonded or heavy constructed bullet for deer size game. I do believe that they definately have a place with larger elk an moose sized animals, but that is not what this thread is about. They can advantageous with a "light for caliber bullet" that way you can maintain high velocities and good penetration. But I do agree with Luke about Lung shooting a 150lb deer with a bonded bullet, a small exit wound going out the other side of a deer means a pin hole was punched through the lungs and most of the energy went out the other side of the animal instead of being "dumped" in the vitals. The deer may run several hundred yards before dying, similar to a bow shot. With a Berger or other lightly constructed bullet, the same "lung" shot often drops them in their tracks due to shock of violent expansion on the vital organs
I don't have any experience with Barnes bullets, I do not live in one of the states where I have to use them.
The principal advantage of the premium bullet is that it lets one work with slightly large game for the bullet weight or caliber than would be the case if the hunter were using bullets like CoreLolt, PowerPoint, Ballistic Tip. etc.
For example, a 100 grain all-copper hunting bullet creates a wound channel that has about the same size (area) as a 150 grain Ballistic Tip. This means a lot to the recoil-averse hunter or the hunter who chooses to use just one rifle for most of his or her hunting.
There is a discussion of what bullets go with which game and why the recommendations are what they are here: Ideal Bullet Weight
Last edited by JASmith; 04-21-2014 at 11:17 PM.
I don't see how that's physically possible, the exact opposite sounds more correct. Unless te 100 gr was going way way faster, a softer more
Expansive bullet will create a
Larger diameter wound canal, can't change the laws of physics
Granet, the copper bullet will penetrate further
Last edited by Luke45; 04-21-2014 at 04:32 PM.
Ya..... Not buying it. Their is no way an all copper 100gr bullet could have a bigger wound channel than a 150gr Sierra, nosler or hornady. Unless you are talking about penetration depth and not wound channel diameter
I have a lot of experience with Barnes and they open up as much as any bullet is supposed to. Bullets are not supposed to come apart. I had a Nosler ballistic tip hit a shoulder and come apart and did not break the shoulder. It only made a messy wound. A Barnes will break both shoulders.
I've shot lots of deer through the lungs with Barnes and although the exit hole through the opposite side was roughly an inch the ribs on the opposite side was bruised and broken in an 8 inch circle. I really think you do not understand exactly what a Barnes bullet is designed to do.
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