I have a savage 110 .30-06. I got it some years back maybe five or six. I recently broke the bolt head retainer pin. I have two on the way from Midway USA. It has a bushnell banner 6x18x50 on it with high mount scope mounts. I cant remember what kind of scope mounts I had but they were around 15 bucks. It has the composite stock. My issue is that no matter what I try it seems to shoot randomly. What I mean is that the majority of shots will be in maybe a 4 or five inch area with some fairly tight groups in there and then there will be radom ones that are all over the place. Some high some way low, left ,right etc. It makes it hard to figure out how to adjust the scope if I shoot once and its way high, then the next shot is way low if you know what I mean. I am trying to rule out what my problems might be. If it is just shooter error than I just need to practice. I am going to get a good shooting rest to try and remove shooter error. THat way I can see if it is the gun and or scope. I am not looking to get under one inch groups. I would like to be able to shoot under two inch groups at 100 yards or there abouts and eliminate those frequent random fliers. I have never really been able to shoot consistantly with this gun. I had other scopes on it before. I believe the original scope was the one that it came with from savage. I then got another scope and the same issue. It was a christmas gift. It was a 70 dollar tasco. I am by no means an expert, I just like to shoot guns. Anyways I have a few questions.
1. What shot groups should I expect this rife to shoot out of box?
2. Has anyone had any experience with the scope that I have. Is it good, bad?
3. Would shooting it with the broken retainer pin cause accuracy issues? I was getting hang fires.
4. Could it be a head space issue?
5. Is it worth bedding the rifle?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Welcome to the site, from reading you post I says to me me it just jumps out to me that I would say you have a scope problem. Sounds like the classic scenario. Just because a scope is new, or it is from a top maker don't mean that it isn't bad. I would try a different scope. The rifle should easily be able to shoot 1/2 to 1 inch 3 shot 100 yard groups, all day long. Cross pin failure does happen but it is a rare problem, I would look for the reason why it broke.
1. 2-1.5 or under
2. no
3. sure if the bolt lugs are not fully engaged
4. probably not...if it was, your brass would not chamber or it would probably look messed up after firing. Compare new to old here.
5. I would wait until you fix the pin, check the scope mounts to ensure they are not misaligned, loose, or maybe just bad mounts. Try something lower if you can. If all of that checks out then let someone else shoot it and see what happens. Try a different bullet weight (you didn't say what ammo you were trying). I've never bedded a rifle and had the reverse effect, it always helped. your milage may vary here. A solid rest will help
In the end, the scope may just be bad or unable to handle the recoil. As you said, this rifle never shot good even with another scope. Maybe the scope......maybe not.
There are so many factors that may be at work against you here. When you start changing things, do it one at at time and shoot the rifle. When you find the problem, the groups will tell the tail. The satisfaction comes when you find the right combination of components/techniques and the rifle returns the favor with tight groups.
This is just my opinion so take it for what you think it's worth. practice, practice, practice
Steve
16-223, 10 223, 10 FCP 308, 111 30-06, 110 30-06, 111 6.5x55, 112 338-06/6mm Rem, 110 300 WinMag,
I was shooting some hand loads with 150 grain hornady nosler bullets and 52 grains of h414.
Besides checking your scope & mounts, I'd also suggest that you check the action screws to see if they are snug and secure. They should come properly tightened from factoiry, but we never know what happens at the gun stores... I've seen brand new guns with loose action screws.
Call it a dumb question but what are the action screws and where are they located.
Action screws attach the action (receiver) to the stock. They are located on the bottom side of the rifle. You will see three screws, one aft and two forward of the trigger guard. The action screws are the two forward of the trigger guard. The screw aft of the triiger guard just attaches the trigger guard itself to the stock.
Those are tight. I have never heard them referred to as action screws so thats why I didn't know what you were referring to. It has a composit stock. It looks like it fits ok. The stock hits one side of the barrel more that the other. I would not think that would affect the accuracy too much. Maybe 1/2 to a quarter inch or less?
BINGO! That certainly will cause problems.Originally Posted by saitotiktmdog
Kelly
A nick in the crown will do it as well. That requires a magnifier to inspect properly not just a naked eye.
Sounds like a combination of things going on here. The barrel touching the stock is one, as the barrel heats it gets worse. Tang has to be floating as well. This aint no Remington where the screw goes into the tang. Another problem is the scope. Like most people you have been told to tighten the screws on the mounting rings until your screw driver breaks. Wrong move. Bushnells repair guy says that most repairs he sees is from rings being too tight and destroying the internals. Rings misaligned is another scope killer. Cheap scope mounts should be banned. Get some Burris rings with the inserts. Start taking material off the stock where it touches the barrel and under the tang if you cant move a doallar bill under it. Definately bed the action as soon as you can. And yes, with good ammo you should get inch or better groups. Cheap ammo could also be working against you if thats what you use. 165 gr bullets seem to work best in Savage rifles according to everything I have seen on this forum. Good luck and report back to us with the improvements.
El Lobo
Your barrel is probably twisted at 1 in 10. 150's may or may not work. Try 165 or 180 grain bullets. Hodgdon shows the load you were using as 2 grains BELOW starting point. 54 to 60 grains of H414 with COL of 3.250 with 150gr nosler ballistic tips. Maybe a little load development is in order or try some factory stuff. The barrel touching the stock will have direct effect on groups. As it has been said, there are alot of tings working against you here, so work them as best you can and try the results. Happy trails
Steve
16-223, 10 223, 10 FCP 308, 111 30-06, 110 30-06, 111 6.5x55, 112 338-06/6mm Rem, 110 300 WinMag,
The load I was using was the base load from the classic lee loader dipper with H414. Hodgdon also shows a max load for that bullet with h414 as 60 grains and the lee info says 58 grains.
I have a Savage 110 with accutrigger in .30-06 and have had many of the problems you are mentioning. I'm trying to hurry so I didn't read much (sorry for repeats!), but here is what I have to say:
1. My .30-06 shoots very poorly with most bullets under 180 gr when seated to the specs from reloading manuals.
2. Loading from a dipper isn't too precise, but with H414 it ain't quite as bad.
3. Mine shoots very poorly with any load I have made with H414. It loves a 180 gr Hornady SP over RL-19. Can't remember exactly but it was one or two grains below the max lit by a CCI 200 large rifle primer. It prints melon-sized groups at 100 yards with cheap ammo except Remington Exp 180 gr SP, which it will bang out 3" groups with. The aforementioned handloads shoot sub moa.
4. Clustering does not mean that a sample is non-random. That is a common misconception. What I am saying is that a 6 moa group may have 2 holes touching. That doesn't mean it isn't a randomly distributed 6 moa group.
5. However, fliers could be indicative of your barrel contacting the stock, which was mentioned. Put your rest underneath the action screw.
Taking a closer look last night It looks like my barrel may be copper fouled. I am going to get a good copper solvent and try that too see what it does. I probably wont be on for a few days or maybe even a week because my Grandpa has cancer and it just spread to his brain. Ill be Heading down to tennessee.
Sorry to hear about your Grandfather. That happened to my sister-in-law at age 54. Family comes first. when you can get back to it send us a report. And yes, copper fouling can be a problem with some savage barrels. Good luck.
El Lobo
So I finally got a chance to take my rifle out again. I used my newly built shooting rest made from a car scissor jack and some metal I had laying around. Works quite well. I got a good copper solvent, fixed the bolt head retainer pin and did and bedding job on just the action. I have determined the cause of the innaccuracy of the rifle. The culprit would be the scope. At first it was shooting ok and than it got more erratic. So what I did was with the gun in the gun rest, and aimed at the target I had my buddy hit the scope with his hand. Sure enough the cross hairs would randomly change from left to right to up to down etc. So a new scope is in order. I think I am finally a believer in the get what you pay for, and even a $150 dollar scope is not enough for an 06. What would be a good scope for a .30-06 for around $300 to $400 bucks that will not crap out on me.
I like the Leupold VXI and VXII 2-7x and 3-9x scopes.
The VXI is about $230 and the VXII about $300
You can get them with a LR retical too.
Light, nice eye relief, no tunnel vision, IE the image fills the scope etc.
Have had several and never had one go off zero.
Used them on several 6.8 spcs, 243, 375 ruger, 338-284 (about like a 338-06), 458 socom etc.
My dad dropped his BLR 243 on the VXI 2-7X scope and it moved about 1"
Make sure you get a good scope mount. I personally like picatinny rails and burris extreme rings.
For scopes go to www.opticstalk.com and ask questions. State what you want, what you want to do with it, and how much you have to spend. There are some extremely knowledgeable people over there and they will not send you on a wrong way journey looking for a decent scope.
For starters give a look at the Vortex line or even the weavers or some Mueller's all decent scopes for the money.
FROGGY
See profile for fire arms
Do it today there maybe no tomorrow
I know you're probably biting your tongue at the thought of a $400 scope, but I am a huge believer in the B&C reticle by Leupold and always spend the extra $ for it now. Also, you might want to checkout SWFA, they host the optics forum already mentioned and they have pretty good prices. They also have some deals at http://www.samplelist.com/Riflescopes-C4.aspx. I just hit their site and they have moved a lot of product recently, but if you watch it, you might get a really sweet deal.
-warthog97
Use that Lee dipper to fill the pan on your scale, they are pretty worthless for charging cases! When your charges are that inconsistent accuracy WILL suffer! If you don't have a good powder scale use factory ammo and save the brass until you get one. That Lee Classic will load very good ammo but without weighing the powder charges you are just wasting components IMO.
Like the others have said it sounds like you have a combination of things going on , clean up the barrel channel and make sure of the tang area and try some different ammo and I bet you'll be surprised.
Keep us posted!
Bob
It's better to shoot for the moon and hit the fencepost than to shoot for the fencepost and hit the ground!
I like Nikon scopes,seem to be clearer than a Leupold to me.I've had good service out of them. ;D You can get a 3x9x40 for around $150.
JEFF
I have one good Nikon 3-9X40 ProStaff scope and one that won't adjust right at all. The glass is great but I think maybe mounting the one on my 110 .30-06 was too much for it.
This could certainly be an issue. When I first got my 110 .30-06 (mine has no AT BTW) it was all over the place at times. Sometimes it would shoot great and sometimes it wouldn't. After lots of swapping equipment (mostly rings and scopes) I discovered it was the stock being warped. Somehow the place that sold it to me had straightened out that stock long enough for it to sell (I bought it used). But I got a great deal on it so I decided a new stock was in order. Now it shoots great after I put a composite Bell And Carlson stock on it. I found one on sale and it made all the difference in the world. I thought at first you might have the same problem but then you said you had a composite stock so I thought no but then you said it was touching the barrel more on one side. Harmonics can greatly affect accuracy and they change depending on heat if they aren't perfect. That's why a floated barrel is best or maybe a bedded barrel is best. Either way you have constant pressure or no pressure. I prefer floated stocks but I have some guns with stocks that touch all the way out and they shoot great too. But any stock that touches on one side and not the other is likely to cause problems just like you describe.The stock hits one side of the barrel more that the other.
Was just looking at scopes getting some Ideas and saw this one while on the Midway USA site.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=813619
Any input. I go to the range most of the time so I would like to have more magnification than just a nine or ten power scope.
Finally went over to optics talk to pick the brains of the guys on there. Here are my results so far.
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_post...=321372#321372
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