Reply With QuoteI'm most likely the last person who should ask but did you modify the trigger from it's stock trigger setting ?
I bought this 308 at the end of December and have shot nearly 400 rounds through it. I get groupings all over the place. It is so bad I can't center the scope. 2 rounds will go 3" down and to the right and the next 2 will go 2" high and to the left. The 5th May or may not follow any of those shots and could be be up to 6"s off center. That also sometimes happens the first shot or the last shot, it doesn't matter. Maybe one of six will hit bullseye so at some point the scope is as centered as I can get it.
I have used 4 different types and brands of ammo from 180 grain down to 130. I have tried 3 different scope mounts (red lock tight) and I am on my 3rd scope, a higher end BSA specifically purchased because it is for 308 or higher calibers so that blowing the scope wouldn't happen. My old Mosin that I cut and crowned the barrel shoots consistent half inch groups so this problem is very disheartening.
It doesn't matter what ammo or scope and base combo I try, I cannot get consistent groupings at 100 yards. I have had 4 other accomplished shooters try shooting the gun and they all have the same result...the gun is all over the place.
I followed the Savage break in procedure to the letter and tried many different type of shooting positions from a bipod to 4 different type of rifle rests. Conditions have ranged from no wind to light breeze which still doesn't matter. I have also checked and double checked to make sure the barrel is free floating correctly in the stock. A dollar bill slides between the stock and barrel just fine if not catching the slightest at the front right side of the stock.
I cannot hunt with this rifle in good consciousness because aiming for the heart/lungs of a deer could result in the bullet being off enough to hit the animal in the hind quarters making it bleed out a slow and painful death.
I am getting ready to pack up the gun and send it back to Savage as it is under warrantee but before I do, I wanted to see if anyone had suggestions. I would need to either take the scope off or remove the stock to be able to box it and ship it unless I use a Gamo case and try to make a box for it out of card board.
Anyone know what I could try or did I just get unlucky and get a barrel that has problems?
Thanks,
Dan
I'm most likely the last person who should ask but did you modify the trigger from it's stock trigger setting ?
If your shots are consistently moving from low right to high left I'd say your barrel is heating up and then rubbing on the stock.
Try shooting a single round and walk away for 5 minutes, repeat for 5 rounds and see how your group looks.
Which model, and does it have the cheap tupperware stock with the cored out area under the barrel ? If you have one of those, the best thing you can do is spent $92 on a stock like this http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/produc...54706&cat=1223
The one I linked to is for a DBM model with a bottom bolt release. You might have a blind mag, you did not provide any detail except is was a Savage 308.
A laminate stock will work wonders compared to a non glass filled plastic noodle, er - stock...
You will also be able to bed a laminate stock properly, whereas a plastic stock even if bedded the fore end will warp when you put any weight on it while shooting and then touch the barrel and move the point of impact.
First step is to tell us exactly what you bought.
He is in the Axis section.
Last edited by cranebird; 03-22-2014 at 06:52 PM.
In my opinion, you've found your problem.I have also checked and double checked to make sure the barrel is free floating correctly in the stock. A dollar bill slides between the stock and barrel just fine if not catching the slightest at the front right side of the stock.
When I free float a barrel, I make sure cloth from a T-shirt is able to pass between the stock and barrel "not catching" whatsoever.
If it is the AXIS original stock and trigger you will NEVER hit the same Point Of Impact consistently. The stock is real flimsy and if you do not mount the gun the same every time it will not have the same POI.
There are several threads on here on how to better with what you have from after-market triggers and stocks to trigger-mods and stock-mods.
My .308 AXIS loves the 168gr HPBT round (my reloads)
Welcome to my home.....FYI..... That locked door you kicked down was for your protection.... not mine!!
Ok, thats what I get for looking at "new posts"...
So virtually all my original comments apply.
1) terrible junk stock
2) non accutrigger
3) any other issues (BSA scope)
You should set up the rifle on the rest the way you shoot it, and have someone check the barrel for free floating with a playing card (not a $ bill, it is too thin). Usually, to try to make a plastic stock work, I have used a 3/4" hardwood dowel that I glue 36grit paper to, to sand open the barrel chanel until it has a 1/16th clearance all the way around. Then there is a possibility that it will be free floated when you shoot it.
Next you will need to bed the action and recoil lug. Watch some Youtube videos. This series is about an english/scottsman and his battle with a Remington 700 SPS. Your axis will probably be very similar.
Bit long winded but he shows the targets and the grouping issues he had. Skip to the last one and you get the "after" view.
Last edited by Westcliffe01; 03-22-2014 at 07:31 PM.
Real quick before I watch the video..thanks for the responses. It seems like the issue may be the crap free floating flex stock. I will read up on threads on how to fix that and maybe a Boyd's stock is in order. I'm just afraid I spend another 100 on
Answer to questions:
savage Axis 308
yes trigger job, down to about 2.5 in lb. real light...like a feather light compared to my other rifles.
scope BSA Platnum 6-24x. I spoke with BSA at length and this is the recommended scope for a 308 and above but I have also tried a Leopoldo from a neighbor and still had the same issues...
Originally Posted by Westcliffe01
That at video and his problems are almost exactly my problem. So you think the flimsy stock to bending upon firing causing the barrel to to be pushed left or right? That makes a lot of sense. I'm of the mind to not try and polish a turd and bed the barrel like the video and go the Boyd's route instead. Opinions on that?
The boyds stock is definitely superior and you can do a proper bedding job on a laminate stock. It is much stiffer than the plastic stock and not as slick either. And looks a LOT better..
Hate to say it but if a BSA scope is the highest end scope you have put on the rifle then its more than likely the scope. Spend $200 dollars and at least get a Nikon Prostaff on that thing. I have had zero trouble with my axis or its stock shooting from a bench with a rest. In fact it is an amazing shooter of a gun. As stated above make sure the barrel is floated well and it should shoot at least moa for ya.
quick check place your front bag or rest just in front of the magazine and try shooting it, keeps the tupperware from flexing
I put a Leopold on to test it....same issues. I have used a total of three scopes with the same results.
The Boyd's is a far superior stock than the factory plastic one, and would be a good idea, if you were shooting 1 1/2" groups to start with. I replaced my factory .308 Model 10 Tupperware stock with a good quality laminate (Stocky's), and it made a huge improvement in the way the rifle looks, and feels when shooting it. But my group sizes, if anything, went up slightly. But I had a .75" grouping rifle with the factory stock, and its closer to 1" now. Still acceptable for hunting purposes. But I was starting with a rifle that was mechanically sound, so it was worth spending money on it to "improve" it. Unfortunately, you appear to have a rifle that is very flawed. It may not be a popular thing to say, but my opinion is that you have a bad barrel. I've had the same issue with a Savage some years back. I never did send mine back, but I probably should have. Exact same symptoms as yours. I fought mine for a long time and wasted $100's of dollars of ammo in it, and many hours of frustration, before eventually rebarreling it. It was a 7mm-08. Using all the same components, except with a new (Adams and Bennett) barrel, it became a 1" rifle overnight.
If I were you, I'd stop throwing good money after bad and send it back. It should never have left the factory making 6" "groups".
A boyd would definitely help a lot. Especially bedded its not difficult to do with araglass gel.
Still your groups sound extreme. Have to checked to make sure the action screws are tight? Then in turn make sure the action will not rock in the stock when the screws are tight?
I had a gun once that was inletted too deep. The action screws bottomed out making me think it was tight but the action would rock around in the stock. Thats why I ask.
Try resting the gun by the barrel nut instead of the forearm. That will help some with the flimsy stock.
Also get a bright flashlight and inspect the crown for damage and look for bad chatter marks in the rifling.
if all else fails its a bum barrel.
If he returns it, he is going to get back the same or a different axis. He can try the boyds stock and if it does not improve, put the factory stock back on and return it.
I am guessing you did not watch the videos I posted ? I had the exact same issues with a Rem 700 SPS in 223. Group size 5" at best. To free float the barrel, I ended up sanding off 1/8" off one side of the barrel chanel, thats how warped it was. On any modern rifle, if you have a variable amount of pressure on one side of the barrel, it will cause a very serious issue with grouping. After getting the barrel basically free floated I then had to take off another 1/16" so it would stay free floated when shooting off a bipod, it was then transformed into a 1/2MOA rifle with the only limitation being 55gr max pills due to the 1:12 twist. When I sold it and bought the 10PC, it was because of the ability to shoot the 75gr HPBT and that had the accustock (original with the wedge) and that rifle was a 1/2MOA rifle from its very first range trip. I just recently rebarreled it with a Shilen 1:8 26" varmint barrel with a Wylde chamber for shooting 80gr VLD's and am still doing load development.
Since owning the SPS, I always try to buy a rifle with a laminate stock to begin with. The fact that he has an axis makes it a bit more complicated since there are few stock options for them. To the OP, in future, try to buy a model 10 or 12 and the lowest common denominator stock I can reccomend is the synthetic accustock which has a full length aluminium bedding block. Avoid the package rifles like the plague. The model 11 is nearly as bad as the axis, so I would avoid that too. Plastic magazine and plastic triggerguard just feel like absolute junk to me and they have a tupperware stock that has virtually no scope for improvement. The model 12 varmint stocks (laminate) are only $148 at numrich. But they will not fit your axis.
Last edited by Westcliffe01; 03-23-2014 at 12:24 PM.
Slickrock, I feel your pain. I've been battling the same issue on a 110. Did the usual scope stuff, barrel floating, plus tang floating with no change.
During all this I noticed the stock was flexing when torquing down the action screws or rather when loosing the rear screw. The rear screw felt mushy when tightening down rather than making a solid metal to metal contact between the pillar and action. Ended up finding the rear pillar was a bit below the inletting surface allowing the "L clip" for the center feed mag to dig into the plastic stock and create a point load on the action when tightening the rear screw. You could see an imprint from the L Clip into the stock. Had to remove some of the plastic stock material to allow solid contact with the pillar.
Might be worth checking to see if you might have something similar going on?
what is the stability of your shooting platform? Both the bench and bags/rest
It's the barrel.
400 rounds, down the barrel, no mention of cleaning, might be needing a good cleaning, with copper removing bore cleaner.
I just bought a boyd's stock. Hopefully that helps accuracy. I did pull the barrel and took a closer look at the stock. There were definite rub marks from the barrel which should not have been happen since the barrel lug is supposed to keep them from making contact. So I took out a file and a razor blade and started shaving the stock. I can easily run two pieces (thick) of printer paper, without drag, between the barrel and stock now. I haven't been able to test fire it but until the stock gets here in about 3 weeks, it should improve the accuracy a bit. Thanks for the videos and links to bed and modify the stock. I decided to not spend the time and money polishing a turd and went with a Boyd's. If the accuracy is still horrible, I will send the barrel back under warranty.
One comment I'd like to address is the one about cleaning. I stated early on that I clean the rifle after every time I go to the range following Savage's cleaning recommendations which is pretty traditional and I have been following those procedures since I was a kid. I also followed their break-in procedure to the letter when I first fired the gun (Very time consuming to do it correctly) so a dirty barrel/gun isn't an issue.
It also keeps coming up about my final scope choice. Yes it is a high end BSA, but that is all I could afford for this rifle. I HAVE installed a Leopold scope designed for a 30 cals and 30-06 and rings borrowed from a friend to make sure it wasn't a scope or ring issue. Same issues every time no matter the optics. I never used the factory scope it came with. That, along with the mounts, went on my son's BB gun. In total I went through 3 different mounts and 3 scopes to make sure optics wasn't an issue.
Thanks again for all the words of advice. I will post any improvements from shaving the stock down and again when I put on the Boyd's.
Float the barrel fully and run a good decoppering agent through the barrel. Check the action screws and scope base screws for tightness and excess length. Stock screws can bottom out and let the action move in the stock. I have often needed to remove one or two threads to keep the screws from bottoming out.
Dont clean it as much either. It will shoot better.
X2 Before I got my Savage I cleaned religiously. Now I clean the action, but not the barrel until the groups open up.
[QUOTE=fgw_in_fla;256183]We told you so...[/QUOTE]
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